#82 Upgrade Your Money Story And Be Financially Free

What do money and consciousness have in common? Studying the link between money and consciousness matters because it helps us understand how our thoughts and feelings affect our financial choices. When we explore this connection, we learn how our inner awareness impacts how we handle money. This knowledge can lead us to make smarter, more thoughtful financial decisions that match our values and overall happiness.

Today we are joined by Pauline Kirk, a financial expert with a mission to change women’s financial statistics. We explore the crucial connection between women and money, the impact of financial literacy on relationships, and the significance of upgrading our money stories. Dive into this enlightening conversation and discover practical steps toward financial empowerment and independence. Prepare to be inspired to rewrite your own money narrative and embrace a brighter future!

Discussion Topics: Upgrade Your Money Story And Be Financially Free

• Today’s Topic – Being Financially Fabulous
• Why is Pauline Doing This?
• Relationships and Economic Abuse
• How to Upgrade Ourselves?
• Is This the First Generation Where Women Have Financial Independence?
• Understanding Finance
• How to Plan Our Spending Plans?
• How Should Women Start Taking Action in this Direction?
• How to Invest for Tomorrow?
• Online World and Finance
• How to Manage Money When You Don’t Have Time?
• Pauline’s Support for Charity
• How Does Pauline Make Money?

Transcript: Upgrade Your Money Story And Be Financially Free

Yana Fry: Pauline, Welcome to Timeless Teachings. It is such wonderful to have you here today with us.

Pauline Kirk: Thank you so much for the beautiful invitation, Yana.

Today’s Topic – Being Financially Fabulous

Yana Fry: And the subject that we are gonna cover today is very dear to my heart because we are gonna have to think about women and about money and how we all as women need to get better at money.

Pauline Kirk: We do, we need to get so much better at money, and that’s why I call it becoming financially fabulous.

Yana Fry: I love that Pauline and I just recently met at the Asia Pacific Speakers Annual Conference in Singapore, and she just did this beam of light that walked into the room. And first I actually saw you are someone more like a healer. So then just looking at you, but then when you started talking about finances and investments, I was like, okay, so this woman has more than meets the eye from the first impression.

Pauline Kirk: It’s quite deceptive. People can be quite judgmental and when I start talking about financial education, financial literacy and what we need to do, I’m just like, wow, you actually like it quite good. And I was like, it’s allowed me to the position I’m in today and which is why I teach it.

And I teach from the heart with no agendas.

Why is Pauline Doing This?

Yana Fry: And before we actually go into the teaching itself, and I also would like to learn, so what we can do and how we can improve. I would like to hear a bit about your story. Why are you doing what you are doing?

Pauline Kirk: I have a big mission, Yana, so my mission’s to change the financial statistics of women. That’s how big my mission is because so many of us are retiring with no money and I love teaching women because we make generational change because we teach our children.

And I wanna make money, not a taboo subject. And we talk so much in life around anxiety and stress and various other things, but still money is still very much taboo in every culture in society. Still, we can’t talk about it in our careers. If we get promotions and bonuses, we still have to sign letters.

People are still funny about talking about it in their households, and the reality is today that 48% people are divorced, and then generally that’s down to some sort of money issue in that relationship. So if we can talk about money, we can stop making it taboo. The world’s gonna be a lot better place for it.

And why I do it, I’m someone who’s gone from experience, so I’ve filed for bankruptcy in my twenties. I had PTSD from my time in the military, and for me, emotional spending was my way of coping, so I didn’t feel great about myself. And then for me, having the credit card out, going out and spending something on myself made me feel good about myself.

And then it was like a vicious circle. It comes back again. Oh, feel a bit down, spend some money, feel great, and then suddenly, the bill comes in or there’s still tags on the clothes that you still got months ago, and it’s just out of control. So I’m talking from a lot of experience around my own journey.

And secondly, I also got ripped off by my financial advisor. And now this is why I was like If that’s me, who else is in the same situation? And how do I know the next financial advisor’s not gonna take advantage of me? So therefore, I thought the only way I’m gonna learn is to educate myself.

And they’ve literally spent the last 15 years educating myself, and I’m gonna be a student every single day in the markets.

Yana Fry: I love that and thank you also for sharing like even, a brief of your story and sorry about the PTSD and I can tell that I think so many can relate and I also myself suffered in a very different way and like some of us, like you would go, you said from the military, more background and it happens very often unfortunately.

I know quite a few people actually who have been suffering with that, but also even for what is called civilians, right? So especially I think women, there used to be so much trauma in a society and unfortunately often in families and relationships, that spending as you said, often becomes just the coping mechanism.

Because people believe, especially the women in that case, they’re not able to address a much deeper problem. And so often, very often it happens in abusive relationships. And then a woman would stay there largely because she feels doesn’t have money to stand on her own feet, and that can go on for years and years, and it becomes like a vicious cycle.

Relationships and Economic Abuse

Pauline Kirk: Yeah, exactly, Yana. I’m glad you talked about that because the statistics today is one in three of us who’ve been in relationships, either the former spouse or a previous spouse have actually experienced some sort of economic abuse, and then that, like you said, has a triple effect.

Throughout. And therefore then we have these deep rooted issues around money. We have these deep rooted issues around self-worth, and then we attach to two together. Our self-worth is our net worth and therefore we feel a certain way about certain things. And a lot of us have money stories, so I just don’t even realise we have money stories.

And generally those stories have come from childhood. So even in growing up in society, your grandparent’s generation had a certain view around money, which then put onto your parents, that then made its way down to you. So generally, your money story is based between the ages of three and 10, and then everything else has been really solidified by your own experiences from that point onwards.

And we upgrade our phones all the time but the reality is we are not upgrading ourselves in terms of upgrading our stories and turning them from old stories into new stories.

Yana Fry: And that applies to so many people around the world. How do we do that? Actually, since we are speaking about stories and I think for many people the works that even to accept that I actually might have a story about money and even looking in this direction. So what do you feel would be like the first few steps?

How to Upgrade Ourselves?

Pauline Kirk: The book that changed my life and I Rate Her very Highly is a book by Nancy Levine called Worthy. And that was a book that really helped me in my own journey because I was like, how do I answer my own money story? What is my money story? And I just knew that I had an emotional spending addiction, like I mentioned.

So for me, I was like, How am I gonna get outta this? And then really, someone recommended this book to me, and then this book changed my life. So I always say to anyone if they’re going through any money stories, this is a really good book. It’s not a sort of book that you pick up and put down.

You actually have to apply the actual, each of the sections at the end. There’s a list of bullet points and you actually have to go through and do the work. I’ll be honest, the first month, It took me just to get through chapter one because I kept lying to myself around my situation, and then I had to really go back and then I put it down and picked it back up again.

So it’s a really game changer book. If you have a money story, I would always use that book as a reference point, as a good starting point.

Yana Fry: I love that. Thank you for sharing. This feels like a really deep resource. And of course, everyone who is listening right now, that if you do feel that this is you, and I think all of us have been there, especially of women one way or another as you said. We probably, maybe the first generation actually, that starts looking at the money stories.

Like I don’t think our parents did. Our grandparents definitely didn’t because for many they didn’t have much, especially women. So I think like we are this, first wave of women who also start asking those questions and. Just also looking at where the world is developing so quickly with AI and everything.

I feel, as people, if we don’t actually realise what we truly are capable of, then I don’t know whether the future of our children will be on this planet.

Is This the First Generation Where Women Have Financial Independence?

Pauline Kirk: Yes, and I agree with that, Yana. I’m in my forties. I look at my parents’ generation. My mom just left my dad to do everything. My mom doesn’t have any idea about money or anything to do with her finances. And it’s oh, your dad does it all. I’ll pay the bills every month, but my dad does it all.

And I’m like, mom, you need to change that because statistically mom, the divorce rate is 48%, and on average, women are living eight years longer. So in theory, there’s a good chance that you’re gonna have to know it anyway, and you’re better off knowing it now than knowing it later. So I’m actually educating my mom in the background.

My mom’s turning 70 and I’m educating her around money quite recently I took a trip back to the UK and actually took my parents to go and see an estate planner who I recommended, who I did my research on, and sat down with them and went through with my parents around, just their will and making sure everything was in place if something happened.

And making sure my mum was on the journey as well to make sure she really understood what was going on. Because she’s oh, you just go with your dad and I’ll just wait here. And I was like, no, you need to come with us because. This is part of you as well.

Yana Fry: If you can explain this to your mom, you can explain it to all of us.

Understanding Finance

Pauline Kirk: I like to keep things simple. Yana yeah, so it’s very, people think that the finance industry can be quite complex, and need to be good at maths numbers and all those sorts of things. I was never good at maths at school. I just had to learn to read, what’s coming into my account every month and what’s going out of my account every month.

That’s really all I had to know in terms of numbers. And then in terms of investing, I just started following people who are already very successful in investing because why am I gonna sit there and study companies and understand it when I can go where Warren Buffett is putting his money? And where’s all these other famous investors putting their money?

Because I’m like I might as well just follow them because they already have thousands of analysts around them doing that work already. These guys get paid a lot of money to actually do it themselves, so why I might as well just follow them, so therefore I don’t need to know much more than that in terms of finance and numbers.

Yana Fry: That’s beautiful. And I love how you put those two aspects, right? So first we need to know what comes in and what goes out. So there has to be some at least basic understanding of a budget or maybe family budget or individual budget. And From my experience in general working with people, and I think even from my own life, I feel that most of us, we probably would be better with businesses and business money and business budgets rather than, like I say, maybe family budgets or just even really investing time into this.

So I’m just wondering what is the easy way to do that.

How to Plan Our Spending Plans?

Pauline Kirk: First thing, I reframe the word budget. Because I hate the word budget already. It already feels like I’m suffocating, right? It feels restrictive. And life’s not, shouldn’t be about having restrictions. It’s about having fun and enjoying life, but also thinking about tomorrow and the day after and the day after too.

The realities are gonna be living until potentially 95, a hundred, especially as women. And therefore we need our money to go so much further. So I use the word spending plan and spending for tomorrow as opposed to the word budget and reframing it because our brain thinks a little bit differently. Cause we go, oh, I get to spend money today, or I get to spend money tomorrow.

Rather than go, I’m constraining myself and why do I wanna constrain myself? Because most of us today have what they call FOMO, Fear Of Missing Out. So they feel like I’m not gonna put my money away because guess what? I might not be around. I’m like, yeah, but there’s a 50% chance you might be. So let’s spend tomorrow instead.

And then when you reframe it that way, people go, oh, wow, that’s interesting. I might use that terminology because my brain thinks a little bit differently, and therefore I make it a bit more fun, as opposed to, I’m feeling like I can’t do something because it feels too constrained.

How Should Women Start Taking Action in this Direction?

Yana Fry: Okay, So what would be the easiest tip maybe for women to actually start taking actions in this direction?

Pauline Kirk: So the first action to take is check out online already. If your bank already gives you some sort of CSV file or a downloadable file that says this is what’s coming in and this is what’s coming out. Because most banks have that system today. so it’s gonna come down to how you are gonna actually track what’s going in and what’s going out every single month, because then that gives you a good idea around where you are spending your money.

Have transparency around what’s coming in. And then that could be from either a salary or your business from your, if you are doing household together, finances, obviously your partner, your spouse’s income, and what does that look like? And then on the back of that, then going around what’s going out every single month, and then really understanding and deep diving into what’s essentials versus then what’s the things that maybe I need to have a look at a little bit more to then go, is that something I’m spending a bit too much money in right now? And do I need to think about that a little bit differently so I’m not saying. Go totally the other way and go. I’ve gotta save everything and I’m not allowed to do anything with my money.

Just saying, have a look at it. And generally, entertainment’s usually the biggest category for women, Men also and then men have a thing about gadgets. So mainly gadgets. And then for women might be even bags, clothes, shoes, getting a hair and nails done. So having a look at some of those areas to then go, am I spending too much in this area and can I make a little bit of a change, but still enjoy my life?

Yana Fry: This is a wonderful practice. I think I’m gonna review my family budget. But then also when you say that we leave money, you said spending for tomorrow, right? How does the investment come into that?

How to Invest for Tomorrow?

Pauline Kirk: So there’s a few things. So first of all, 71% of women today leave money in their banks because they don’t know what else to do with it. So they just leave it there because they’re like I don’t know who to trust, or, I don’t know where to go, or, I don’t know how to get started. And one of the number one reasons is I actually don’t have confidence if I am aware.

The first thing that we need to think about is really what’s your risk tolerance? Once you understand what your risk is, then you can make a different decision to go what’s gonna sit comfortably when it comes to investing outside of what’s available?

It’s around what’s gonna help me sleep at night? Ultimately, that’s what it comes down to. But the other steps we can take are around. What’s my goal, right? What do I want my money for? So we’re talking about spending for tomorrow, but what sort of life do we wanna have in the future? It’s amazing the number of people I meet and then I say to them, okay, so what is it you want your money to do?

And they’re like I don’t really know. And I’m like that’s why we don’t put our money away because we actually don’t know what we wanna do with our money to then do something about it. So then it’s about getting focus. Once we have focus, we can basically have more direction around what we want to do with our money.

So what is it that we actually want it to be? The question I’d ask to the audience to then say, okay, what is it that you want your money to do? So for example, if you want a life where you get to travel, enjoy the world. And that’s certainly mine on my husband’s list. But then it’s around. So why am I gonna commit myself to this big expensive property?

And then it’s just gonna sit there idle because I wanna travel the world or maybe get a little property that you can rent out, and then use that money to travel the world. So it’s gonna come down to what is it that you actually want from your life?

Yana Fry: The conversation I have been trying to have with my husband for the last year, Pauline.

Pauline Kirk: It’s not an easy conversation. I call it financial date nights. And my husband and I, every 90 days meet and we sit down in a cafe or in a bar or somewhere where there’s not a lot of people, and we sit and we just discuss what is it that we still want from our lives? Are we still on track?

Where are we headed? What does that look like? Is our spending plan where it needs to be if we want this certain life that we wanna lead in the future? So these are the conversations that me and my husband have every 90 days, and therefore, it doesn’t cause conflict in the household because we’re already talking about money. It’s not taboo in our house.

Yana Fry: Exactly. And I think statistically they have, there are two subjects that people are really reluctant to talk about in the relationship, usually money and sex. Both seem to be very awkward to have around the coffee conversation. But actually as you said, to your point, it’s important to make it normal and money is definitely a very big part of that. And as you can see, just as you said, probably all of us coming from our parents, especially mothers, our mothers, we didn’t know what to do with that. Like you shared an example with your mom. My mom was a bit differentiated there being like a solo provider for the family because my parents divorced, when I was very young.

But it’s interesting how then it creates another thing. So she learned how to save and how to provide, but it developed this massive fear. What if it is not enough? Or then when just about the investment. Until recently, I remember the first time I gave my mom an ATM card.

And the fear in her eyes. When she walked up to the ATM machine, she looked at me and she said, you mean this machine has all my money inside? And I was like, mom, no. So it’s interesting how there is technology now, everything going online, it’s like another stretch, right? So it’s not like in the old days, like some investments are a bit more.

Maybe traditional like real estate. It’s something that has been around for a very long time. We understand it very well. But then the moment we start going into the online space I think especially for women who, and not coming from this kind of background, like not from the web3 background it’s a tricky subject.

Online World and Finance

Pauline Kirk: Yes. It’s very much a generational thing and how much we’re willing to learn because there’s so much out there now in terms of education online. It’s just sometimes you’ve gotta work through, who’s being a bit more unreal in terms of some of their comments they’re making versus someone who’s a bit more genuine with their good intentions.

And the reality is that there’s plenty of financial advisors. Not everyone’s operating in your best interests when they get paid fees and commissions to sell products to you that may not be suitable for you per se, in terms of your best option. They’ll deem a suitable standard, but it doesn’t mean it’s the best option for you.

So this is where some of the challenges come in around where do we find genuine people around how to support us on our journey? And I always say, look at the professionals and then start reading what they’re doing because they’re successful for a reason.

Where does Warren Buffett put his money? And it’s quite open. He’s got an account called Berkshire Hathaway, for example, and I just look at the companies he invests in. You can do that online at no cost, and therefore they go, oh, that gives me a good indication of some of the companies that he’s investing in.

They might be wanting to do some research on the line. Because the great thing is that we have the internet now that we can actually go in and search these companies and go, is this a good company from what I’m reading? Because. Warren’s already invested in it, there’s a good chance it’s gonna be a good company.

So yeah there’s those things that we can do. The other thing we need to be mindful of, like you said, is around our bank accounts. Now the reality is that banks are not our friends, and we’ve grown up thinking that the bank manager is the best person for us. And certainly when I speak to my parents, when I was younger, they were like, go and speak to the bank manager.

He’s gonna help you. The reality is if you talk about technology today, you’re lucky if you see a human in the bank. Never one, nevermind. One you can actually talk to about investing. And even then, banks can only sell you their products that they have in their own bank. They’re not, they’re not the shop

you can go in and pick anything. It’s not like a department store. You can go, oh, I can have that company, and that company. You’ve gotta think about how they’re only gonna sell you what’s available on their shelf. It’s like going to Dior and going I wanna buy Gucci. Sorry you have to go to the Gucci store.

It’s the same thing. I wanna go to a department store that sells Dior and Gucci, and therefore I have more choices. So it means exactly the same thing when it comes to our investing. It’s around what’s out there. But also as well be mindful that when we have our money sitting in our bank accounts, even something so simple as moving it to a high interest account makes a huge difference.

Now, I’m not saying that’s the best place to put your money, because the reality is that when you leave your money in the bank, it’s not gonna make you rich. No one made money being rich, leaving the money in the bank. And just to give you an idea, most standard bank accounts give you oh 0.23% interest.

And the reality is that you’re gonna be dead before that money doubles because it takes on a 1% interest rate. It’ll take you 72 years to double your money. So you’re not even gonna be alive to see your money go. But if you put it into a high interest account, depending on where you live, some are paying three, four, 5%, you can double your money in less than 20 years.

I’m gonna be around, hopefully in 20 years to see that money. That’s more likely right than it is for me to leave it in a standard bank account. And banks don’t say, Hey, would you like a high interest account? Banks will just say, oh, this is what you. You didn’t tell me you’ll need a high interest account.

I haven’t put it in a high interest account for you, so you actually have to request from the bank to put it into a high interest account for you.

Yana Fry: It’s interesting that you said, again, I feel it’s all changed right now because I don’t know what it was in your childhood, but when I was little exactly. You would say the bank is your friend. Doctor is your friend. And I find, like with the banks, it’s probably the same when we go and see doctors, particularly in the private sector.

So that whatever contracts are being made in this particular hospital, this is the medicine that you’re going to receive. So there is a process to that. So it is the same with the financial institution, just as you’re saying, or like Gucci stores, that I think it’s an important mindset shift for us as consumers to realise that fundamentally it’s a business.

For banks, it is a business for shopping malls. It is a business for hospitals, it is a business. And any business would look after their profits and loss and their interest. And sometimes it’s in the interest of patients and customers and sometimes not. And it’s hard to say if you’re not on the inside, right?

So that’s why, like your point, it is so important to do the work. And yet as also listening, Pauline, I’m just realising that or reminding maybe myself once again, that we all have very different personalities. We are at different stages in life and we have different kinds of busyness throughout the day.

And like women, many right now who are in a stage of life when they try to juggle everything. A family, often a child, a job, ageing parents, trying to build great relationships with their spouses. Still be a good friend, maybe like a conscious citizen, right?

So trying to do this all and sometimes it feels like where do you get time to do also an extra thing when there might not be enough already kind of hours in a day for what you already have on your plate, right? So for someone maybe who has a bit more free schedule or if you feel that this is absolutely number one priority right now is the money.

Then I found absolutely yes. Like exactly everything that you said right now, go do your research, take actions, contact your bank, see what you can invest the best in. Get in touch with Pauline and ask her for investment advice, right? So go do that. But also just realistically, it’s probably gonna take some time for you to adjust and to learn.

And if you wanna take courses and figure it out. And not everyone has the luxury of time. So what, for those women who are listening right now and feel I really need to look at my money situation, but where do I find time between everything I’m already doing?

How to Manage Money When You Don’t Have Time?

Pauline Kirk: So I’m gonna recommend us because obviously, we do it out of pure compassion. I’ve been doing it for 15 years, so every day we’re posting one thing on social media. So we ran a challenge, for example, back in April that just said, Hey, it’s financial literacy month. Every day we just put a challenge out there and said, here’s something little to consider.

So go back and have a look at the content that we’ve already put out. Have a look. There’s a little title that says, Hey, this is something to consider. And that’s a good starting point. And just in terms of. Thinking a little bit differently around, okay, what can I do differently around things I need to consider when I wanna start on this process?

We also run group coaching as well. It takes between 60 and 90 minutes a week of your time. For me, that’s the sweet spot for us and we have a weekly session you dial in, we run book clubs. So we do a lot of activities in this space to support women in this area because if you are time poor and you just wanna get started and you just don’t have to do the, all the research, We’ve done it all.

I’ve spent 15 years doing it all. So if you wanna cut down the timeframe, this is a good way to do it with someone who’s doing it from a heart-centred view. And we also donate 80% of our profits to charity. We actually help children get an education in different parts of the world because we’re doing it out of the fact that we wanna change your life, you’re gonna make generational change and you’re helping people you don’t even know.

Yana Fry: And I love how when I met you, it was very funny when we started talking about this, and this is what you said, that you donate a very big percentage of money generated through this financial education to charities. I think especially in Southeast Asia. Is this correct?

Pauline’s Support for Charity

Pauline Kirk: Yeah, so we have a charity we support in Malaysia where we help refugee kids go to school. And also with the parents, we help them so they learn skills that it can actually then be self-sustaining. So for example, the men learn how to cut hair, for example, and therefore then once they’ve got skills, they can be self-sustaining for the women.

They are predominantly from Afghanistan and Myanmar and they know how to cook food. So therefore, they’ve been taught social media skills to then sell their products online by the ingredients in the cell and they’ve got the cells and ecosystem there as well. So that’s one of the charities that we support.

There’s another charity we support that also helps build schools in Africa. And different parts of the world, so kids can get access and parents can get access to fresh running water, which then allows the children to go to school and get an education. Otherwise, they’d spend that time instead walking all day to get water from a dirty river and the water’s not even clean.

It creates a different sort of environment in terms of illnesses that they’re dealing with because they’re not getting fresh running supplies. So that’s another charity that we support. For anyone who knows Malala Yousafzai, she was Lady and got shot by the Taliban. We actually support her program where we believe every woman should be entitled to education, so we actually partner with her program as well.

So they’re the three charities that we support. Plus my husband and I actually have bought some land in India, and our plan is to build a school on that land and the plan is to make it a boarding school. We can take different kids from the villages, get them educated. In terms of reading, writing, and financial education.

But we also bought the land next door where they can learn how to be farmers and it grows wheat right now. And then they can take those skills back to their own communities. So that’s our, that’s my bigger mission is to then have, this self-sustaining world where not only are we supporting you in terms of your own financial education and you are getting ahead.

You are gonna teach your children and we’re gonna eradicate financial education and poverty. And then on the back of that, then we’re self-sustaining behind the scenes and everyone’s helping and lifting each other up.

Yana Fry: Pauline, thank you so much. And I love that when we met, when you were telling me, parts of what you just shared right now, and then when I asked you how you make money and you were like investing, and trading.

How Does Pauline Make Money?

Pauline Kirk: Yeah, that’s how I make my money. I’m an investor. I’m a day trader in the stock markets in the US. It suits my time zone. I’m here in Asia, I’m here in Singapore, and I get to trade the US stock markets in the evenings, and that’s where I make my money. And I also have another business, which is in the supply chain consulting business.

So I actually have another business as well. So that’s where I make my money. This is the community that we created. We’re more of a social enterprise.

Closing

Yana Fry: Thank you so much for being with us here today, Pauline. I think it was incredibly insightful and just very informative. So thank you for tuning in to Timeless Teachings.