Creating Visibility with Authenticity

Ever wondered how a journey from the oil and gas industry leads to transformation in education and personal development? Join us in this episode with Zalina Jamaluddin, Vice President of Low-Carbon Ventures at Hibiscus Petroleum Berhad in Malaysia. She shares her experiences from an ExxonMobil scholar to navigating a male-dominated industry and transitioning to education. Explore insights on authenticity, creating visibility, and finding balance while defining your path to success. Discover how challenges become opportunities for growth.

Discussion Topics: Creating Visibility with Authenticity

• Did Zalina Always Want To Be In This Career?
• Zalina’s Journey
• Working In a Male-Dominated Industry
• Where Did Zalina Go After That?
• Zalina’s Greatest Supporter – Her Husband
• Biggest Risks in Zalina’s Career
• Key Challenges Zalina Faced
• Turning Hard Times Into The Most Beautiful Time of Life
• Defining Success
• Advice to Emerging Women Leaders

Transcript: Creating Visibility with Authenticity

Ritu: Welcome to the latest episode of Rewrite The Rules. And it’s really nice to have you here and thanks for taking the time out.

So I’m gonna start by formally introducing you to Zalina Jamaluddin, Vice President Low-Carbon Ventures at Hibiscus Petroleum Berhad in Malaysia. And Zalina leads a team to drive low carbon venture efforts from decarbonizing the current operating oil and gas assets, to then finding new green business opportunities.

So welcome to the show.

Zalina: Thank you, Ritu. It’s a pleasure. With all the important things you do in the work with leadership and coaching and the women leaders. I really am thrilled to be part of this.

Ritu: Oh, that’s lovely. That makes two of us. Okay, great. Zalina I wanna start with something fun. You are doing this role, which is so big, so important. Did you always want to be here?

Did Zalina Always Want To Be In This Career?

Zalina: Okay, do I even know that I’m gonna be here? No, definitely not. No one can plan their 20 year career.

No. And the thing, the funny thing is, when I first started I was an ExxonMobil scholar.

Ritu: Wow.

Zalina: I thought at that time, at the young age of 19 when I received the scholarship and I had to work in Exxon for five years,

I thought I would retire at Exxon at that point, right? I knew that I wanted a leadership role, but I thought, this is it. I’m gonna start, I’m gonna retire in Exxon. So never, and you never, I will also see the evolution, the oil and gas and the energy industry has come.

Low carbon energy transition was never in the picture unless the la until the last five years I would say it, it caught up. 

Ritu: What happened after ExxonMobil, that scholarship and the first four, five years?

Zalina’s Journey

Zalina: I actually surfed and actually went through the whole career in Exon for a good 11 years in multiple roles and in technical roles and also in leadership roles. And after that, So this is where the twists starts. I wanna be in a think tank in the government’s role. And that time in 2011, there was an economic transformation program prior from the Prime Minister’s office, and I applied and I got in.

Ritu: Okay. And just for context, we are talking here, Malaysia, right? So this is you working in the government office in Malaysia?

Zalina: Yes.

Ritu: Then what did you do there, because this is so interesting.

Zalina: Yeah, it was supposed to be a transformation program for the whole nation in different sectors, different sectors. They call it national key economic areas. And oil and gas was one of them. And I joined the oil and gas sector naturally.

What we did is we strategized and we picked the key projects that can propel the country and really grasp the strength and the opportunities that present themselves and to make an oil and gas services hub that was the intent. So I worked with the industry players. I worked with the government, agencies and stakeholders, and also academic institutions to then formulate what are. The strategies and we work with the government to government relationship with the Norwegian, the UK, and in fact the American to see how best can we position Malaysia as the oil and gas services hub. 

So it was, it is very different from a technical role to strategic and I would say international relations role and policies. But at the same time it was quite grounded because we were looking at projects. So at that point it was useful. And where my value comes in is, Yeah, I understand the technical part of it compared to the normal public civil servants. So that, that helps on the, just working with the team in the different team. That was, I would say, the most fun part of my career.

Ritu: Wow.

Was it difficult to work in the government sector? That’s one. And secondly, was it difficult because I would, in my head, think oil and gas is a very male dominated sector. So was that even an issue for you?

Working In a Male-Dominated Industry

Zalina: That’s an interesting question because I didn’t realise that was an issue because I think being an exon there were a lot of ladies around and, even when I was in Malaysia, it was very, I would say Americanized culture.

And it was quite, level playing field I felt. And then when I got out I saw the difference and I didn’t see it until somebody actually asked me. So I was the only lady, actually I was the VP of the service at that time. He actually asked me, I went with my boss, the executive director, and then he asked me, oh, are you the PA of the executive director or special officer? 

And I said no, I am not. I’m the VP of this department. And I have done, and I, and I think having the. Technical competency previously, and a good solid foundation actually said, okay, I’ve done reservoir, I’ve done planning, I’ve done gas and all this, all the technical jargon.

And he was taken aback. But I did it in a, at that point I didn’t really see it, so I didn’t really take offence. I just explained to him. So he took it and he, I think I managed to gain respect after that since then from people. So I realised and that was the turning point for me. I was a little bit aware and conscious of people’s perception.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss. I think that also my case and I actually then had a, I would say a toolkit of standard answers, FAQs, when people ask me and I have, it just made it summarised. So that helps a lot. And I think working with the government agents actually changed my perception also.

I always thought that it would be difficult for me, the transition, but it’s not because what I find is that different government agencies, especially those that work front facing with the international community, are actually very savvy. Our ministry of Trade is very savvy and I was glad that’s who we interface with and they, I’ve learned a lot from them as well.

Ritu: Very good. No, it’s so encouraging to hear, and I love this thing about, that something that you said that even though you didn’t realise it, but the fact that you were technically so strong technically you knew your stuff, that kind of gave you that confidence that it didn’t even occur to you.

That probably you are the only woman, or if somebody asked you a question, it didn’t phase you right? Like you were like, yeah, this is what I do.

Zalina, where did you go from there then?

Where Did Zalina Go After That?

Zalina: that, at that time I went back to another Canadian company actually. Talisman Energy. And what was interesting is in Exxon, I’ve always been a technical person and actually they were grooming me. For operations, leadership and going eventually for other bigger roles. And at that point I was interested in commercialism in Exxon, and they said, no, you have to at least complete a good tenure year technical ladder and technical and operations ladder before you know, you go for a broader generalist assignment, which is a commercial role. And in Exxon, I didn’t have the chance and opportunity to do so, after I joined Tasman, I actually asked for a commercial role.

I was very specific, and I said, I want this commercial model as a commercial advisor. When I joined them, as always , salary negotiation. And I put my, whatever I think my salary is gonna be, and my husband says, why don’t you put, additional 10%?

And this, I think this is one of my other lessons learned in life. You just ask, if you don’t get it, you don’t get it, that’s fine, but if you get it, it’s a bonus. So I put in an additional salary increase and they actually agreed to it.

Ritu: Yeah. It’s very interesting because it’s about the value we put on our work and we put on ourselves, right? And in your case that’s what you thought, but the fact that they gave you that means they valued you, that and much more. So that’s again a point about,

As women leaders, sometimes maybe we hedge too much, maybe we don’t ask or we don’t feel we, our value as much as probably others perceive it to be right. And it also starts with how you see your value and therefore then others will see it like that.

And I want to hear your views, how important it is to have, whether it’s your husband, your partner or your family as somebody who’s an ally who’s really constantly pushing you.

Zalina’s Greatest Supporter – Her Husband

Ritu: I think that is one of the greatest enablers for me because you can’t unless you’re not married, you just can’t go Without support from your partner. And in this case because both of us are engineers and both of us are in the energy industry, we understand what it takes to do the work. We run our family like a business as well. We’re both in Exon and we have the whole set of systems. And I can tell you like my husband is the greatest support and greatest ally.

Zalina: And I said why do you do this? He said, because we have a daughter, I want our daughter to be successful as you are. And we have our sons. And if you, her sons marry, get married we want the spouse to be. Successful and they have an equal seat at the table.

At every part of our life, at every part, our stage Career career phase, we actually make a conscious decision. We have in fact, every year we have a family I would say offsite management offsite to set the tone for everyone’s work for the year. What do you want to achieve for the year? What’s important for us? What are the family values?

Sometimes, when I was in Exxon, I took a break. I slowed down a little because I wanted to spend time with my kids.

I took six months off. No one knew that, and it was fine. And it was all about working with your boss. And then as I went into the government, the role was very different. It’s a lot of travelling, but it was not as intense as in the oil and gas sector. So I let his career accelerate.

And then when I went back and we were trying to fit in and in every part it needed to be discussed.

Ritu: Yeah. That’s such an important thing you said, right? Like the need to have this support function, the need to have this ecosystem around.

Zalina, I wanna ask you, have you, as you look back, what are one or two big risks that you took in your career?

Biggest Risks in Zalina’s Career

Ritu: I have mentioned the first one, which was a jump to the government, that was the first turning point cuz it showed me that I can actually do something different out of my comfort zone.

Zalina: And of course the second one, which is where I met you, to, was this jump to the Asia School of Business, which is a business school. Really that was I would say a turning point. And after my midlife crisis, I would say, and at that point, at the peak of my career in the energy industry, I felt empty. I felt there’s something out there that I really wanted to try and I haven’t, which is about human talent development. And there was no way I could do that with a technical and commercial background. And I said, what do I do? What do I wanna do? I really want to go into this education human capital development. And the opportunity presents itself there just by sheer luck.

I had a coffee with my friend who was from Harvard, and she said, Hey, I’m joining this school and They’re very interesting. It’s MIT setting it up here in Malaysia. And would you like one to just have a chat with the dean? I said, yeah. Why not? And actually at that time I am so important here, setting the intention and setting that radar when the opportunity comes. You feel that it’s a coincidence, but actually maybe it’s meant to be.

I literally had to restart my career at the age of 30. So 30 plus.

I would be lying if I said it was easy. Because I had built a huge reputation in oil and gas. I’m going to something that people don’t know about you and people and now I have to make friends with the CHROs of the world and the people and the academicians and very different. But I was very clear on what I wanted to do. Actually. What I wanted to learn is what kind of model suits me.

I try different things and I’m happy that I. Tried that. I had a five year trial. I would say it’s sabbatical, but it’s not really sabbatical, but it’s just a sandbox. Where I tried and up to that I realised, oh, I actually, there’s, you have to distil the part that you like

I got rid of all the clutter and the noises and all the things, and I managed to distil, which was quite interesting. It’s a long time to distil. I wish it was shorter, but I realised, hey, I actually really want to lead people or some part of coaching where I transform people’s lives.

And that’s how I actually got certified in coaching, which was amazing. And now I’m actually doing site coaching on top of my job, my day job.

Ritu: Very nice. As you look back again, and I keep saying look back because you’ve had such a good long career.

So what were one or two key challenges that you faced, and then how did you overcome them?

Key Challenges Zalina Faced

Zalina: I think for me number one would be how do I create visibility? Because by creating that visibility that helps me navigate my career better, and it was challenging. I, and I remember my first. The role in ExxonMobil. Actually my first advice from my supervisor was, you need to be visible Zele, and I don’t understand that at the age of 23

it’s actually about people knowing you, people. And really a personal brand, I would say.

It really is trying to get through difficult assignments volunteering, actually offering advice, offering help. I find my way of doing it is really offering my service and offering my value.

I thought it was more fun that way rather than the A type of, okay, I must do this, I must network with these people and I must create an aura of visibility.

I’m actually known for a few things. Number one is I’m a connector.

From the way I move in various different fields and industries, I seem to know a lot more people than the average person.

So that’s my value really, and I know how to play the cut. And really secondly is because I’m so into personal development and coaching people come to me for advice and mentoring. So I do those.

Ritu: Oh yeah. We hear this word creating visibility. And even today and especially, all leaders have been told that, okay, you need to be more visible.

And I think especially women and and the. The very generic or very general response from women leaders is, oh, I don’t like it. Like it, does it mean I have to be loud? Does it mean I have to be everywhere? Does it mean, oh, I’ve gotta speak up in meetings even though it’s not relevant?

And what you said, the answer is no, you don’t have to. The key thing that you said, and which stood out for me was find what’s your value, find what you are good at, and use that to create visibility in that way. You do what you do and you feel good about it. You are authentic about it.

And and, and then as a result of that, you create visibility.

Zalina: You have to be yourself, because if you’re not authentic, it’s gonna be tiring.

It’s important because if everyone is the same, if everyone follows that same mould, then we are not gonna be memorable at all.

So the best thing is to be yourself. And you know what? Bring that unique value.

Ritu: Really at the end of the day, it’s just integration and how do I integrate in all the different facets of. My life, right?

Zalina: Whether it’s career, whether it’s work, whether it’s even personal. And it’s very important for me to really define that.

What is it? What does a good life look like?

One of my values is actually balance and How do I then integrate and make it a bit more holistic and really you mentioned about support and having the ecosystem that is super, super important, can’t really overstress and and about that.

But another one I would say is really be honest with yourself.

What is important and what is not. Because if we don’t take the time out to reflect, What’s our biggest priority? If you’ve, I’m sure if you’ve heard the analogy of the big rock small rocks, right? What are our real big rocks and then the rest are just sand and I can just fill up in between. So once my husband and I and our kids actually define what’s important for us, what’s our priority, and for us, we have our own priority, even within our own career or our own, yeah. School life. How do we then delegate? If something that is can be delegated, delegate it.

I can confess I don’t cook well. I don’t even wanna pretend that I can cook. So let’s just buy, grab, right? Forget about it. And prioritise it to such that, okay, if you can buy services,

and we are at the point that we are lucky that we can buy services, right? And not everyone can do it. So you have to define what is within your means.

My husband had cancer last year. When I was the COO. So I, and that is another part when talking about asking help and finding balance, right? How do I actually manage this? It’s only at the tip of craziness. And then, he had to go through chemo for six months and it was very hard, right?

Because people think that when you are successful, you can do everything right. And the fact is people don’t know that you are you have to ask for support from the higher ups.

Ritu: It’s about surrendering, right? Like it’s about let, letting go of control. Yeah. Letting go of control and surrendering.

Turning Hard Times Into The Most Beautiful Time of Life

Zalina: And that was the most beautiful part because after that it was like the best lesson in my life. And it sounds weird because I’m talking about having cancer and then, oh, but by the way he went through the whole chemo and it was like, it’s hard, but it was the best time of our life.

Can you imagine?

Ritu: Wow. Wow. How did you turn that into the best time of your life?

Zalina: Because I guess, okay, number one is I managed to work the whole thing the whole schedule to follow his chemo treatment. But at the same time, I actually used the coaching. This is where the coaching skill helps. And actually I coached him to come out of it, right?

And it was such a transformation for him. I felt wow, this is like the best client I’ve ever had. And it’s not about, it was not about the result, it was about the journey. And the relationship that you have can, at the end of the day which I’m gonna share with you cuz I really like the fact that you have the question there.

How do you define success? That was a turning point. Like it’s not about the material thing, but it’s really the. The spiritual and the groundedness of what matters to your life. And that was a turning point for me. Okay. But I need to get rid of it, because it was a little bit, oh, it’s tough because I was handling the crisis in my operations and we had a six month crisis. Which, I cannot really, in operations. 

But at that time, the people needed me to be the leader, right? But at the same time, I need to be okay at home and I need to be okay personally to lead two different things. One is. Be a caregiver. One is, to be the boss at work? And I didn’t take a sabbatical at all. And that was interesting because that was my biggest lesson. If you can continue your life as normal as you can, because the routine and that helps centre

and ground you for. I would say it really stretched me, but it really taught me how and what I can do. And that’s why when I got this role, it was like, okay, no problem. I’ve done the worst.

Ritu: Firstly, I want to really thank you for being so open. Seriously. Really trusting with them, with your journey and with the information that you shared so, so much. Thank you so much.

So I know we are going a little bit more on philosophy. The younger ones probably need the experience to get here, but that’s such an important point and that’s why my leading question to you earlier was: how do you define success?

Defining Success

Zalina: What I’ve learned through the journey of being a caregiver of my husband when he had a. When he had this cancer and the whole chemotherapy for six months last year while I was a cook. I think it really is a realisation that sometimes you cannot control.

There’s a lot of things that are outside of my control and it was such a humbling experience for me. Really humbling in the sense that you can plan, but you can never really plan and really taught me to surrender. And I think that is really good as a leader because sometimes for me is when I have Frustration with the team members.

Yes, you have to be very objective about what needs to be done and what needs to be achieved. But sometimes there are also a lot of factors outside your control, and that can be many different forms.

I had to manage Covid crisis two years ago. I would say more than 500 people got infected offshore and they had to be demobilised and actually there are certainly, there are few people who passed away because of the situation.

And as a leader, when you’re in charge of that crisis, you really need to know what is controllable, what’s not controllable, how do you manage the emotion, how do you manage the crisis? Was such a valuable experience for me, and when it comes to finding the balance, not really finding balance at that point, but really knowing what matters and going back to my first definition of priorities and what’s the most, what’s that big rock?

Because if not in a crisis, if you don’t know what’s important, Then everything is just, it’s gonna crumble and you’re just gonna lose it. And for me it was very important to define at that point, if there’s a certain crisis, what is the most important that we need to get out of.

And that helps a lot. And talking about the whole chemo journey for me was the best because I know it sounds weird. It was, it sounds, yet a very difficult, challenging moment, but it was the best because we really are clear about what we value, what’s important in life and. And really us ourselves, oh, okay.

We have to change our lifestyle. We have to be human and we can’t be working to the point of health detriment, right? So we say, okay and take that step back. And now I, every day without fail, I said what’s important for me every morning is I have to set an intention, I have to clear my mind. And the good thing that came out from that whole saga last year, the whole experience was I learned a lot of mindfulness techniques in all this. Balancing stress, managing stress. I took up certification in Qigong because it was very important for both the patient and the caregiver.

One thing that I think as a leader is hard. When you have all these challenging issues is to be honest to your team.

And I was honest. I said there’s nothing to hold back. So I told my team that, okay, this is my situation. I have to leave work. And they did amazingly. This is when your team members really surprise you and delight you in so many ways. And my team, All my heads, were so cooperative.

They were so understanding. My board members were understanding, my boss was understanding and they actually helped give me the space when I needed it. I did not take any sabbatical whatsoever. I still manage the crisis at work. While managing the crisis at home. And coming out of that, I think a bit more grounded, I would say.

Ritu: Nice. Very good. As we are about to wrap up our conversation, if you were to give one piece of advice to the young emerging women leaders in Asia specifically, what would that be?

If there’s one solid piece of advice, what would that be?

Advice to Emerging Women Leaders

Zalina: That’s a good question. I would actually learn how to embrace Myself and you should learn how to embrace yourself. And really that can mean, that really can mean pushing boundaries. That can really mean understanding your strength and making the full use of it. don’t follow other people’s footsteps or mould and. Because for me, it’s important that no one defines your life.

You define your life and define it in many different ways and forms. So embrace yourself and really be okay with it. And then from there reflect on what really matters to you and what really matters to your career. Because There is no such thing as one linear career journey.

Enjoy it because what’s life if you don’t enjoy it?

Ritu: That’s right. Great pearls of wisdom there. As we are wrapping up. So I would like to summarise our conversation, this beautiful conversation. My key takeaways from that. One thing was what you said in the beginning was just ask. Just ask for it. Ask for what’s worth.

Ask and know your value and ask for it, right? Like that word, just ask. The other thing I personally loved is this whole family offsite, coming together as a family, deciding your values, deciding what’s important for you this year, and how everybody works around that. And the third piece was about integration.

It’s no more about just the balance, it’s about integration because few things are gonna go off balance certain periods, but how do you integrate all of them in the, all of them in this big system called life? So thank you so much Zalina. It was such a joy speaking with you and thanks for being so open and vulnerable.

Really appreciate that.

Zalina: Thank you too. I really enjoyed our chat.

Our Guest: Zalina Jamaluddin

Zalina Jamaluddin is the Chief Operating Officer at Hibiscus Petroleum Berhad. She previously worked as the Chief Business Development Officer at Asia School of Business, Senior Commercial Advisor at Talisman Energy, and Vice President – Oil & Gas Services and Equipment at Malaysia Petroleum Resources Corporation. Zalina attended CornellUniversity.