S5E5 – How to Influence with Impact – Answer the ‘So What?!’

Have you ever found yourself in a meeting wondering, “What’s the point of all this?” If so, you’re not alone. In today’s episode of Small Talk With Rainkraft, we dive deep into the world of meetings and ask a fundamental question: Are meetings wasted opportunities? We discuss the power of asking “WIIFM” (What’s In It For Me), a crucial concept in understanding the motivations of meeting participants. We explore how setting clear agendas and pre-empting concerns can transform meetings into productive and engaging interactions. Tune in now!

Discussion Topics: How to Influence with Impact – Answer the ‘So What?’

• Are meetings wasted opportunities?
• WIIFM – what’s in it for me
• How to keep your attendees interested in the meeting
• Asking WIIFM is the way to tap into your attendee’s motivation
• How to tap into individual concerns during a meeting
• Being selfish doesn’t have to be negative
• The meetings are not serving anybody
• What’s the hook of your conversation?

Transcript: How to Influence with Impact – Answer the ‘So What?’

Subha Chandrasekaran: Hey, Hasita, how was that big brand meeting that you were prepping for? How did it go?

Hasita Krishna: It went to some unexpected and unnecessary places. At one point, they’d all been talking for almost two and a half hours and the conversation dissolved into the actual tactics, which is what we’re I thought it was completely unnecessary to discuss with that set of people in the room.

If you’re going to give customers a reward, then what is my prerogative in that, right? Like it’s your reward, you give as much as you want. So it was quite interesting to see that somehow you give a meeting two hours and everything dissolves to the lowest common denominator. That’s the feeling that I took away really yesterday.

Subha Chandrasekaran: And I’m getting the sense that you weren’t given the space to call that out also because you didn’t really know why you were there.

Hasita Krishna: At one point, in fact, we were told that there’s the reason we all sit together for an hour and a half to discuss this campaign has such gravity. But then nobody really made space to say, I’m going to stay quiet for five minutes so you can tell me what’s going on. That didn’t happen. Surprisingly.

Are meetings wasted opportunities?

Subha Chandrasekaran: No, I think meetings, as you said, do dissolve to the lowest common denominator, but they’re such immensely wasted opportunities. Because if you’ve brought the right people into the room, which itself, I mean, that’s a topic all by itself of how do you make sure you’re.

Hasita Krishna: Add everyone to the meeting invite.

Subha Chandrasekaran: But if you assume you have the right people, right voices in the room then as the person leading that meeting, there are so many important points to keep in mind so that you get what you came for.

Hasita Krishna: I think especially you’re right in larger groups of people having conversations more and more, I think, and you can see it in the energy of the people walking out at the end of it, that they’re just glad it’s over. I don’t think they saw the need to be part of it. It happens to all of us, right, where we say, why was I even invited to this meeting?

I think maybe that question is coming from a much deeper space, right? Yes, I’ve been CC’d because I was in the last conversation. Those tactical elements still stay. But why is it that so many of us are walking into and out of meetings, not knowing why we were even invited to be there in the first place?

Subha Chandrasekaran: No, so true. This is a common challenge that I see with a lot of not just team leaders, but anybody who’s in roles where they’re just trying to get something done. By another group of people or even just maybe their team member or a colleague or a peer.

And I find myself reminding them to just put themselves in the other person’s shoes and if they are sitting there and they look you in the eye and you’ve stated that this is what the meeting is for and they look you in the eye and say, so what do you say?

Hasita Krishna: Or maybe they are saying it with their eyes already.

Subha Chandrasekaran: I mean, nine times out of 10, they’re saying it in their body language. Right, like when’s the free pizza coming, it’s quite a revelation for some folks who’ve been running these meetings and team huddles. Customer calls for so long that, it’s not about big words like empathy and all of that, but just simply, Hey, what’s in it for me?

You’ve called me here. You’re having this conversation with me, right? You think it’s important that I take part in it. You’ve got an agenda. Why should I make that mine?

Hasita Krishna: And literally in you saying all of those things, I can already sense where the gap in expectations is, right? Like firstly, you called me to the meeting and then you showed up late, which is kind of invalidating me in terms of saying I’m here, but you’re not here. And then you’ve called me for a reason, but have you like, so many questions. I think the meetings are largely driven, I wouldn’t even say by an agenda, but by the person who thinks it’s important to have a conversation.

WIIFM – what’s in it for me?

Subha Chandrasekaran: Right, In behavioural science, there’s an acronym for everything. So why not this? So it’s generally known as WIIFM which just simply stands for what’s in it for me, right? On the surface, it may seem like, hey, if everybody is so selfish that they’re coming in only if there’s something in it for them. And hey, the answer is yes.

Hasita Krishna: Thank God you said it.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Fundamentally, we’re doing something either because we’re going to gain something or we’re going to avoid losing something. Losing face, losing time that could be better spent elsewhere, all of that, right? So, WIIFM is important because it’s a way to tap into what’s really motivating the other person.

Why do they currently behave in a certain way? And why are they going to behave in the way that you want? Like, how do you make that tweak in their behaviour pattern, right? And that’s really what we film and in a way that answers to what gives the other person.

Hasita Krishna: Right, but is it on the say the meeting organiser or the person who’s bringing together all of these people and like you said, everyone could have a different stake in a different agenda? How do you bring them all together in the context of say, whatever group conversation, whether it’s a meeting, whether it’s a brainstorm, a workshop, it could be so many different things. How do you help all of these people stay invested in it for long enough?

How to keep your attendees interested in the meeting?

Subha Chandrasekaran: No, that’s fair and there will be situations where it’s a large group and you can’t meet everyone’s interest, right? But I think the first step is to pay attention. What are they interested in? What is motivating them? And it’s an interesting side thought that see, I can’t motivate you, but I can tap into what already motivates you, I can’t motivate you beyond a point to sit in that room and want to give your best of ideas. That you need to walk in with already.

Hasita Krishna: Right.

Subha Chandrasekaran: I want to impress this client. I want to do a good job. I enjoy this industry, whatever, but I can tap into whatever motivations you walked in with. And that really happens by paying attention and one being clear.

Why are we here? And not just from a meeting context, but even from one important conversation get on the phone with you or you’re talking to your manager or you’re even talking to you know, your friend or spouse or peer clearly stating, this is my agenda.

This is why we’re having this conversation. Obviously, it’s going to be quoted in some casual conversation, some other you know, pieces of information, et cetera. But fundamentally you and I are meeting because I want to achieve XYZ. And this is my view on it. I’ve called this to our meeting so that we walk out with a good framework for everyone to start working on this Christmas campaign.

Hasita Krishna: Right, right,

Subha Chandrasekaran: That’s my agenda. And it’s also good to share your starting point of view. And I say starting because hopefully, it will change over the course of this meeting if it’s a good meeting, right? My starting point of view is that we are not yet ready for Christmas, and we have a lot of work to do, and we do have three, or four good individual ideas. We need to bring them together. We don’t have too much time. And, my starting point of view is also that this is our first Christmas campaign for this brand, event, location, whatever and we really should do a big bang out of it.

Hasita Krishna: No, that actually clarifies a lot. And also maybe that was not the agenda that was set for that meeting, right? Like the subconscious unspoken agenda there probably was to say, I have already decided that this is how it should be. And I’m not saying that from a place of, you know, It’s just that sometimes you do need things to move faster and the way to get things to move.

Your experience has probably shown you that bulldozing through is the best way to do it. So there’s that unspoken vibe in the room that says, I have already made up my mind that this is what it’s going to be. And ideally, I would only want you to be excited about it.

Subha Chandrasekaran: No.

Hasita Krishna: In the interest of fair dialogue, I will ask you if there is something wrong with this. I think we all walk into these conversations with these different energies, and sometimes you’re not even aware, right? Like that decision is already, I’m sure I’ve done it hundreds of times, even before meeting somebody or, scoping something new with somebody, I’ve probably already made up my mind. Based on whatever my parameters, right? Like it’s not about the other person. It’s about me deciding that given these four conditions in my life are true right now, I’m going to say no anyway.

Asking WIIFM is the way to tap into your attendee’s motivation

Subha Chandrasekaran: Right, WIIFM is very powerful because whether we like it or not and it’s not about, you don’t have to get into this whole, I think debate or even this thing that, Oh, is everybody really so selfish? I mean, come on, we all have a hundred things to do. So even if it is your best friend and you’re making an ask of them or having, and that ask could be as simple as, Hey you know, help me plan this trip to, you know, Hawaii or whatever it is. If you want that time and energy, which is a precious resource How do you tap into their motivation and they’re already motivated to help you or they’re already motivated to talk travel? So how do you tap into that? And that’s where you give them a bit of what’s in it for them and lay it out, right?

So if whoever was running that two-hour meeting says, Hey, for you guys, as our partners, this is an opportunity for you to put out all your ideas. There’s no good or bad at this stage, right? Or this is your idea. This is your opportunity to ask the questions that are still unanswered for you.

Hasita Krishna: Yeah.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Then suddenly you’re interested. You’re saying, Hey, I can be a part of this.

Hasita Krishna: And what’s also interesting is that the moment you say this is a floor for questions. I think there could be some very interesting perspectives that come through because you captured the diversity of the decision making process, everybody and their uncle, who’s even remotely going to be impacted by this decision is in the room.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Yeah.

Hasita Krishna: maybe in some ways, not asking that question is a loss in and of itself.

How to tap into individual concerns during a meeting?

Subha Chandrasekaran: Correct. Correct. How do you really build on this? You know, you’ve stated that this is why we’re here. You’ve given the, you know, the large chunks of people who are in the room an idea of what’s in it for them. Right. Even. You know, and that what’s in it for them would be, would ideally be different for different groups, or there is a larger cohesive one saying, hey, if we get this one right as a group, the budget for our spring campaign triples,

Hasita Krishna: Right.

Subha Chandrasekaran: And hence, there’s something in it for the collective. And once you’ve shared that, how do you then start asking the questions that will help you understand where each one is on this kind of timeline towards a certain goal and asking very probing, open questions Like, what are your concerns? This is the campaign that we have. What do you think is not working? Or, you know, what is, or how do you think this could go wrong?

Hasita Krishna: Makes sense.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Questions that will help people feel comfortable enough to share their thoughts, views, opinions and not be defensive about it, not feel like If I start with the fact that I think it’s a really lousy idea, then I am not going to get to speak for the next two hours and

Hasita Krishna: Yeah.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Won’t be coming for the next one.

Hasita Krishna: I’m also thinking is there value in using something like this in conversations that inherently have a certain amount of conflict, like maybe I don’t know if an exit interview is a conflict situation as such, but essentially where the two people on both sides of the table have two very different ends in mind.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Yeah, no, it’s very useful in all sorts of, let’s say leaders. employee, team member, that kind of dynamic and a one on one dynamic Like I’ve walked into the room to give you feedback about your last two months, That’s my agenda. What’s in it for you? I think you will pick up nuances about not just you know, what our expectations are for people in this role, but what our culture is, what works here, what doesn’t.

I think listening to this and grabbing some of the opportunities that I present will give you visibility in the organisation. Maybe it’ll help you settle in faster. It also is important because you get to then ask me.

You know, what really went wrong or what went right and you get my honest candid feedback. And I think this is a very important investment in your own personal growth, right?

Hasita Krishna: Yeah.

Subha Chandrasekaran: and then proceed to ask the question saying, in that situation, what made you do that? Right. What could I have done to support it better?

What were your expectations from the rest of us? Right.

What would you want to do differently next time?

Hasita Krishna: Yeah. Yeah.

Subha Chandrasekaran: A lot of questions which support the WFIM that you’ve given them.

Being selfish doesn’t have to be negative

Hasita Krishna: I think why it’s so hard to receive some of these conversations is because maybe they have not been contextualised for us. They’ve not been right. And in, and one of the things we say in feedback is don’t make it about the person. But finally, the universe in which the person exists doesn’t matter in terms of how they receive it, right?

Like any number of things could have happened in those two months, which caused them to behave the way they did or not perform to the extent that they were supposed to. So yeah, that’s an interesting framework and maybe, you know, on some level it works with the belief that all human beings are selfish, but in that it would be right, right?

Subha Chandrasekaran: Yeah, and I don’t know if being selfish always has to be negative. Like if you have a team member who’s extremely selfish about their own performance, what opportunities they get, what kind of work they get to do. There’s a motivation there that you can

Hasita Krishna: tap into yeah,

Subha Chandrasekaran: where, hey, they’re always looking for the next best opportunity.

How do I work with that? How do I tap into that energy rather than saying, hey this person is you know, forever trying to grab something see how you can tap into that and serve there with him also.

The meetings are not serving anybody

Hasita Krishna: It’s interesting. Yeah. Quite an interesting conversation. Yeah. It’s just in terms of, I mean, we all have complaints with meetings, right? And I think it’s quite interesting that the core of why we are also uncomfortable with them is probably coming from the fact that they’re not serving anybody. And this is why.

So just being able to ask what’s in it. And I suppose anyone can be asking that, right? Like if my leader is not setting that prerogative, then I can always ask myself, what’s in it for me before I step into the meeting, right? And it’s that saying, right? Like, even when you think you don’t have a choice, you still have a choice.

You can choose How you walk into, you know, that particular scenario and situation, and I guess just make the most of it. Yeah.

Subha Chandrasekaran: right. And the usefulness of this is that it doesn’t have to be on the fly or rather actually it shouldn’t be on the fly. If you’ve got these crucial interactions coming up, whether it’s one on one or one to many, puts you in a mindset where you’re preparing for that event, because you’re thinking about, hey not just what’s in it for them.

How can I also preempt some of the questions, concerns, thoughts that they may have? Right? So how can I, when I’m setting this context, when I’m saying, Hey, doing well in this really means three X budgets in spring. Maybe a couple of them are thinking. 3x budget, 3x work same number of people. So I also say that it gives us an opportunity to ramp up the team, get the right resources.

I preempt some of that because I’m putting myself in their shoes. What are they likely to worry about, Ask questions about, or rather even not ask, hold back. But let me answer.

Hasita Krishna: Right. That’s interesting. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe even subtly to send out some of these questions, you know, when a big meeting is coming up and engineers answer people, if that’s what it’s going to take.

What’s the hook of your conversation?

Subha Chandrasekaran: When it’s, it’s quite powerful, even if you kind of. Touch the tip of the iceberg. It’s quite powerful to just start thinking about the other people in the room. And why are they here? How do I keep them here? Mentally. Physically, they’re stuck there. But how do I keep them here?

Interested in this conversation? Contributing. What’s that hook? And Bifim is really that hook that taps into just the right thing for that person.

Hasita Krishna: It’s interesting and lost to think about. I think for anyone who’s in the job of influencing a lot of people, finally meeting whatever is just a tool, it’s an extension of whatever you’re trying to do. But finally, everyone’s going home and they’ve got their own priorities. So how do you keep them interested in what they’re doing at work?

Yeah, it’s quite interesting.

Subha Chandrasekaran: So try it out next time and let me know how it goes.

Hasita Krishna: Okay.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Thanks for listening folks. See you next time. Bye.

Hasita Krishna: Bye.