YT17 | This famous theatre director gave up his career in UK and USA to make a difference in SG

This is Glen. Glen Goei is one of Singapore’s leading film and theatre directors, his substantial body of work encompasses a wide range of the performing arts, including theatre, film, parades and world expos. Highlights include his Olivier Award-nominated performance in the title role of M.Butterfly opposite Anthony Hopkins in London’s West End; and his critically acclaimed feature films, Forever Fever and The Blue Mansion. 

Glen has also made significant contributions to Singapore’s theatre scene. Since 2002, Glen has served as the Co-Artistic Director of Wild Rice, for which he has directed hits such as La Cage Aux Folles, HOTEL, Public Enemy, The Importance of Being Earnest, The House of Bernarda Alba, Cook a Pot of Curry, Emily of Emerald Hill, Family Outing, Blithe Spirit, The Magic Fundoshi, Aladdin and Boeing Boeing.

In this episode, Glen shares his journey from early theater direction to facing challenges as a Chinese actor in UK and USA the 90s. The conversation covers his experiences in London and New York, shedding light on the highs and lows of his career. From his crucial role in repealing Section 377A to his decision to return to Singapore and tell local stories, Glen’s narrative is an inspiring exploration of passion, persistence, and purpose.

Discussion Topics: This famous theatre director gave up his career in UK and USA to make a difference in SG

• Starting theatre direction at 11 years old
• The reality of being a Chinese actor in the 90s
• Our stage is a mirror of society
• The sky’s the limit for Asians
• We can’t just survive on science, we need arts too
• Section 377A may have been repealed, but our fight is not over
• My life hasn’t been easy but I’m glad I pursued my dreams
• Closing

Transcript: This famous theatre director gave up his career in UK and USA to make a difference in SG

Yana Fry: Welcome to another episode of YanaTV. Today our guest is Glen Goei, who is one of Singapore’s leading film and theatre directors. Glen, I’m so happy to have you in the studio again, because what the audience doesn’t know, I actually interviewed Glen, I think it was eight years ago, and it was my first interview professionally, and it lasted for two hours, and my team was mad, they were like, Yana, how are we supposed to cut it now? So today I promise to keep it much shorter, okay?

Glen Goei: Thank you for having me again, Yana.

Yana Fry: And It has been so many years and I’m just so excited also to hear what happened during this time. But then I would love to start from the beginning because you have a great story and this is what I really would like to share today. So born and bred Singapore, right? Grew up here and as people know the theatre and cinematography industry tell us a little bit. What happened when you were growing up and where did you go in Singapore?

Starting theatre direction at 11 years old

Glen Goei: So I spent the first 20 years of my life in Singapore studying in a local school and I went to ACS and I went to serve my national service.

And then as soon as I completed my national service, I went to England and I lived there for 20 years. So I went to England to study and did a degree at Cambridge. In history, and then I went to drama school to study acting, which was my passion all my life.

I started directing theatre at the age of 11. I was given that opportunity in my school. I had great teachers who believed in me and who wanted to give me the platform and wanted to give me help to build my confidence in theatre.

So I have had great opportunities since I was young. But of course growing up in Singapore, in Asia, in the early 80s, it was impossible to even dream of a career in the theatre because there were no professional theatre companies in the early 80s in Singapore. Theatre as a career was just non-existent. That all changed 10 years later. But when I was going to drama school, I had a lot of parental objections.

Yana Fry: I was just going to ask how. Dad, I want to be a movie star or film director in the 80s and they’re like, be a doctor, please.

Glen Goei: like, be a doctor,

Yana Fry: Or

Glen Goei: be an engineer, or an accountant or a baker.

So anyway yeah my, my parents were very disappointed when I wanted to go to drama school, but I told them that I’ll just do a year of drama school. And then after drama school, I’ll become an accountant which is what nearly happened because after I graduated from drama school, I then applied very dutifully because I had promised my parents that I would, since I wasn’t going to become a lawyer, I should become an accountant.

So I applied at that time. There were eight big agencies, big accounting firms in the world and I applied to and I got a place in one of them and I was about to start at Deloitte in 1988. When I got a call from my agent. To audition for a part to play the leading role in a play called Monsieur Butterfly, M.Butterfly, It was called, by David Henry Huang. And then the rest is history, because then I got the role opposite Anthony Hopkins in 1989, and then after that I decided no turning back, no more accounting. No more turning back. I really wanted to pursue acting and theatre as my career, and which is what I did. And I’ve been doing it for the past 33

Yana Fry: So here you are, a young, talented, impressionable boy living in London and going for this career and wanting to be a superstar. How was the reality?

The reality of being a Chinese actor in the 90s

Glen Goei: The reality is that A, I was a Chinese actor in 1990, so we’re talking about 33 years ago, Okay. I had just done a West End role opposite Anthony Hopkins. I had my name splash all over the newspapers and when the role ended after seven months because Anthony Hopkins went off to do Silence of the Lambs, I was unemployed. I was totally unemployed, and unemployable, because 33 years ago, there wasn’t diversity in casting. There wasn’t colorblind casting. There wasn’t this whole thing about inclusiveness of different races In TV shows, in soap operas, and especially on television. Now you see it everywhere, right?

Yana Fry: Now you see it everywhere. You see it in Aaron James Bond.

Glen Goei: But yeah, now you see now it’s all multi-racial, right? 33 years ago, the reality was not and I was unemployed and as a result of that, I decided to set up my own theatre company. And I set up my own theatre company. 

In London in order to give jobs, create jobs for Asian actors and find Asian stories to tell. Asian stories which had never been told in the UK at the time. And also to provide jobs for Asian actors. And that’s what I did. I set up my own theatre company.

It was very difficult. It was very difficult. But nevertheless, I pursued it for seven years. After seven years, I decided to make my first feature film. It’s called Forever Fever and it was bought by Miramax. And then I signed on with Miramax for five years. from 1998 to 2003. So I was living between London and New York at the time after making my first feature film.

Yana Fry: And so how was then working in New York?

Glen Goei: It was very difficult because you face different challenges in the film industry because they’re developing stories all the time. They have stacks and stacks of scripts and men, a stable of writers. and directors that they’re working with all the time and so sometimes they have a hundred projects in development and maybe only one project gets made. So it’s what they call development hell. So I was in development hell for five years and after those five years, I decided I was invited back to come back to Singapore to direct a National Day Parade.

Yana Fry: That’s quite an honour. It’s a big thing. 

Glen Goei: At the time it was the National Day Parade was always run by the Ministry of Defence. And so they invited me to come back to direct. My first National Day Parade was in 2003, and then when they, after they invited me to direct it, they kept me on for another four years.

Yana Fry: it’s the Singaporeans who kept you here, okay?

Glen Goei: So From being unemployed, now you’re very warm, you’re very welcome and at the same time, my friend Ivan Heng had just started his own theatre company called Wild Rice.

Yana Fry: Ivan invited me to join Wild Rice, and I’ve been with Wild Rice for 22 years as their co-artist director, I directed about two or three plays for them for the past 22 years.

And I know about dress, I know the work and I love what you guys are doing. But maybe just, let’s tell our audience a little bit. What it is, guys, you’re focusing on, right? Because you’re a very unusual theatre company. Yes my experience, is one of the best, maybe the best in Singapore, if I can say so myself. 

Glen Goei: Thank you very much.

Yana Fry: What are you focusing on?

Our stage is a mirror of society

Glen Goei: I think one of our main aims is to be a mirror to society. So whatever we do on stage, whenever, whatever we put up in the theatre always needs to reflect what is happening in society, in

Singapore society in particular because theatre is such a local thing and so we want To reflect What are the concerns and what are the problems and what are the issues and the conversations that people are having in kopitiams, in food courts, in their homes.

We always work with writers, and we always like to do new writing, if possible. And when we do a classic, which I do very often, I always find a classic which reflects what is happening in today’s society. And I always try to bring the classics back to Singapore. In other words, I will always try to contextualise it.

Yana Fry: because they are like in local dialects.

Glen Goei: Yes. So we use English, but, in Singapore our audiences are local and they want to come to the theatre to hear and to hear all the different issues which everyone in Singapore is talking about. And so even when we do a classic, we recontextualize it to a Singapore context. So we could be doing a Henrik Ibsen, we did Public Enemy of the People, which is a 130-year-old play.

It’s a 130 year old play, but we set it in Singapore. We use Singlish so that our audiences feel that they can connect with us and that we can engage them on a very personal level, rather than doing something which is too highbrow. So that is Wild Rice’s mission to make plays which are accessible, and which connect with our audiences.

And we are always challenged. We are always provocative and sometimes controversial. But always entertaining. Always entertaining because you have to draw your audiences in. Before you can become controversial or provocative, you need to entertain your audience first and foremost. So that’s what we do. I suppose you can say that’s our, it’s our resident debt, but it’s also our signature.

Something Very local. This is why we’re called wild rice because we’re wild because who wants to be boring? Who wants to be Boring when you can be wild, right? And of course, rice because rice is Asian and rice is a staple of our culture, whether you’re Malay or Indian or Chinese, we all eat rice and rice is the staple of our diet and it’s a necessity.

And so we always believe in wild rice that art is also a necessity. We need art to survive. We need art to grow. We need art to feel alive. That’s why we call ourselves wild rice.

Yana Fry: I love that. I can just listen to you talking for hours. Just redirect the question, since you were talking about your life and also your experience, like in London and in New York at that time and how difficult it was, right?

Also for a person who is from Asia. To make it on those stages and then you came back and now you’re doing what you’re doing for all these years. I’m just curious when you look around also in the world do you think it is changing? Do, because right now, what would Michelle Yeoh, right? Just won the Actress as the first Asian best actress who ever had it.

So do you think, let’s say, if it’s now a person at the beginning of their career who is Asian, they would definitely have more opportunities, Absolutely more opportunities now? But do they, like, how far can you go? What do you think?

The sky’s the limit for Asians

Glen Goei: I think the sky’s the limit, the sky’s the limit. So the writer of the movie, Everything Everywhere, I mean he, one of the writers and directors, he’s Asian as well. And he won the Oscar for best, I think director or, writer. They won so many awards. So I think the sky’s the limit. I think the world has become smaller in a way. Because of the Internet, the world has become more accessible to everybody, right?

And I think it’s wonderful, even with… With social media, TikTok and Instagram, people feel connected to various parts of the world. You can connect with so many different types of people and the exposure is so amazing.

So I think the internet has changed things a lot. And if you want to date it, I suppose the past 20 years. But in the 90s, when I was growing up as an actor and as a theatre director in London, it was. It’s very difficult. It was a different world altogether. The internet has changed things completely.

And I think people are more exposed, and people want to see different cultures, and different races, and different genders represented on television, and in the cinema. Yeah. So I think that has changed things a lot.

Yana Fry: Do you think we have enough original content being created in Asia specifically Singapore?

Glen Goei: I Think Korea is definitely at the forefront of it and of course, Japan had its wave in the 80s and 90s it was J-pop. And, all the games like Nintendo. Pokemon is still from Japan. Japan had its wave and Japan is still producing wonderful movies and wonderful anime. But, of course, now Korea is at the forefront, right?

With all, with BTS and Blackpink and all the pop, rock and pop bands that they have and all their TV series and all their films. I think it’s wonderful what’s happening. that people are taking notice of Korean dramas, especially during COVID-19, right? Everyone’s watching the Squid Game, right? Squid Game, yes. And because of COVID, everyone’s watching Korean soap operas, right?

All over the world, people are watching Korean soap operas. And so I think that’s amazing. They’re creating a lot of content. But there is, Korea has its own population, which supports that, right? Which supports all their local content. And Korea also has all the very, very powerful TV stations, media stations.

Yana Fry: Who helps to distribute it, right?

Glen Goei: and who help finance

Yana Fry: The most important part right?

Glen Goei: So it’s amazing original content from Korea. So going back to Singapore,

Yana Fry: I would just, yes, can do it in Singapore on this level. And what does it take?

Glen Goei: Have to say first, we are a very small country. So the population doesn’t quite support it because it’s very expensive to make TV shows to make films. Very expensive the capital is needed for these. Productions are not cheap. And because our population is also multi racial and multi lingual, which population do you make films for?

So it’s very difficult given the size of our population. But that’s not to say you can’t do it. I think if you come up with a very original story which has never been seen before, originality is, it’s, it sells itself. So I don’t think it’s impossible. I think it’s difficult. Because of the expense involved.

Yana Fry: What do you think needs to change?

We can’t just survive on science, we need arts too

Glen Goei: The arts definitely need a lot of support. Not just financial, but also emotional, emotional, mental support. I think that education is very important, that people need to realise that arts are as important as science, as important as economics for the future of this country.

We can’t just survive on economics. We can’t just survive on science. It’s what we need all these different things, and the arts need to be seen as valid, as, and as important, as integral to the future of any community, of any society, of any country. So I think education needs to start with education.

It needs to start from schools. And so I think it needs to start from there. And then, of course, parents need to be educated to realise that the arts are an important part of our society. So it’s the South education and of course financial backing and support I think from not just the government, but I think from the private sector, I think the private sector also needs to come in on this.

Wild Rice has been going on now for 23 years. We would not have been able to continue without the support of private individuals. Private individuals who saw our work and who believed in our work and who could see that.

It’s important for us to continue and we could not have done it without the help of private individuals. Of course, the government helps us, but to sustain what we do we need a lot of help from private individuals. So I think the private sector also needs to step up to the plate when it comes to film production and TV production, too.

Yana Fry: Private sector, here’s the message. I know that there are some things that are close to your heart, and you have been like a quiet advocate for this for a while, and you don’t often talk about it on camera. Let’s talk about it, okay?

Glen Goei: Let’s talk about it. Okay, let’s talk about it.

Yana Fry: Let’s talk about it. My question would be for you as, if I may say so myself, probably one of the leaders in LGBT community because of the work that you do, right? And you blend in different worlds. It’s not entirely how you identify, but it is a part of your life and then you also do everything else.

Glen Goei: It is a very important part of my life.

Yana Fry: It’s an important part of your life. Exactly. And you are at a stage where you can talk about it. So we are talking about it.

Section 377A may have been repealed, but our fight is not over

Glen Goei: The community And I’ve been involved in that, in this fight to repeal 377A and it’s a law which discriminates and criminalizes gay sex. People who indulge in gay sex and we fought to get it repealed for the past 15 years. So since 2007, we have fought and we finally got it repealed last year in August 2022. After 15 years of fighting to get it repealed, we did it.

Yana Fry: This is the most important thing. It was 100 years of one way, and you changed it to a different way.

Glen Goei: I didn’t believe that it would happen in my lifetime, to be honest with you, because we are a very conservative society. And I understand that we are multi racial and that we are multi religious. So there are many segments of society that a government has to balance and consider.

So I totally understand that. So I never really believed that it would happen in my lifetime. But it did happen last year and I’m thrilled. It doesn’t mean that they fight for equality. No, in fact, the fight, the real fight really begins now because we need to fight for equality. We need to fight for um, greater inclusiveness and diversity in our society.

We need to fight against bullying at schools. We need to fight against discrimination at the workplace and even at home, violence at home, which happens against the LGBT community. We seldom hear about these stories because we’re so Asian. Because when these things happen to us, we feel shameful.

So this is something very much close to my heart. And I do want to talk, I like to talk about it because at least to raise awareness. Yeah, to raise awareness. So people know it is happening.

Yana Fry: also depends on every individual. 

Glen Goei: I think the more I talk about it, the more people like myself talk about it, we bring awareness to people, we educate people so that people know that it does exist. And that we have to fight this discrimination.

We’re in the 21st century and Singapore is a first-world developed nation. We need to fight for those minorities. Those who have no voice and those who are marginalised. 

Yana Fry: Thank you for sharing your heart. I can see you are very passionate about it. I’m just curious, right? When you were sharing all those stories of your younger self living in London and New York it was an entirely different time and you did, you made the choices you did and the way you did them. However, my question is when you look back, would you have made different choices?

My life hasn’t been easy but I’m glad I pursued my dreams

Glen Goei:  Wow, no. I made the choices at the time and they were the right choices to make. I’m glad I pursued my dreams. There were many difficult years, of course, especially the years when you are unemployed as an actor, or even as a theatre director or a theatre producer.

It was very difficult living in the UK in the eighties and nineties. People were not used to seeing. an Asian face stepped up for an audition, right? Because the role is for a Caucasian actor. So why is an Asian actor showing up for an audition? It was very hard to educate people to try to let them see that there are different ways of casting, and how important it was for audiences who go go to the theatre to see a multi-racial cast being represented to reflect the society because, if you go to a city like London or New York, it’s so multi-racial, So it’s very important for us to see that representation stage and on television and in film.

In the 90s, it wasn’t like that. I didn’t realise it at the time. I was a young, very impressionable and very optimistic actor. But it’s okay because I set up my theatre company which tried to address those issues. And it was the right thing at the right time. Okay, no regrets. Absolutely no regrets and of course I know one question you would like to ask me, why did I come back?

Yana Fry: Yes!

Glen Goei: thank you for asking this question. Why did I come back after living in the UK for 20 years? And I was very happy living there in spite of all the problems I faced as an Asian actor, right? And as an Asian director. But I felt that when the call came to come back, it was very strong. And I felt that I could make a bigger difference here.

There were many directors there. There were many other Asian actors. But I felt that I could make a bigger contribution if I came back to Singapore. Because Singapore at the time, the theatre industry and the film industry were very young. Very young. And I felt that I could make a difference if I came back.

And I think more importantly, The stories that I told through theatre and through film were original and there were local stories. There were stories which were waiting to be told because we get so many films from Hollywood, and so much TV content from streaming channels, right? We get so much of that, but we get so little of our stories being told and represented.

And I just felt that I wanted to tell those stories from my own perspective and from my own little world. I wanted to tell those stories because those stories weren’t being told. So that’s one of the reasons why I came back and I just felt that my life was more meaningful if I told those local stories. 

Yana Fry: Thank you so much for joining us today.

Glen Goei: Thank you for having me.

Yana Fry: I love your life story, your way of telling stories, the stories you are going to create in the future. I’m looking forward to that. Thank you for being on the show. 

Glen Goei: Thank you for having me again.

Closing

Yana Fry: That was Glen Goei on YanaTV with us today and Glen and I would love to hear from you. Let us know in the comments. What is happening for you when you’re listening to this interview and perhaps especially if you’re in the theatre or film industry if you happen to be an asian And you are maybe starting your career right now. How is your experience? Let’s have this conversation. And I’m so grateful to the Muse studio for hosting YanaTV.

So thank you for having us here. And most important guys, remember to subscribe to the YouTube channel and share this episode with friends. I’m going to see you next time.