ST2 | Vani Gupta On How To Stand Out As A Small Business In The Big Market

Discussion Topics: Vani Gupta On How To Stand Out As A Small Business In The Big Market

• Ways to differentiate your product/ service
• What do you stand for?
• Branding and consumer’s decision making journey
• How can you present yourself (product/ Service)

Transcript: Vani Gupta On How To Stand Out As A Small Business In The Big Market

So welcome to another episode of ShopTok. Well today, we are really privileged to have with us Vani, founder of CherryPeachPlum – a marketing-led business consultancy that helps young entrepreneurs rapidly grow their revenue. And she’s going to share with us some, let’s say thought-starters for how to do exactly that.

Vani, thank you so much for joining us today. Before we start, would you like to introduce yourself and your work with CherryPeachPlum? And by the way, I really love the name. It’s very, very memorable, which I guess is the point.

Thank you so much. Yes, absolutely that. Exactly the point. But it’s quite strange how I landed on the name, but before I come to the name, let me tell you a little about myself. I’ve had an out-and-out good in advertising and marketing. And I was always very, very passionate about consumer behavior. The whole world of consumers really fascinates me.

And that’s how I am doing what I’m doing. And after many years in the corporate world, I’ve felt that I needed to explore a bit further. And the world of entrepreneurs sort of lured me because of the pace at which things get done and the number of different experiments and the number of different projects that one can actually take up. I think the scale of learning for me has very, very rapidly accelerated after having left the corporate world. So I’m very, very grateful for being where I am.

I do work mostly with entrepreneurs as they’re outsourced, Chief marketing officer. And we will go on exactly this, as you said at the beginning of the show. You know, the one question all entrepreneurs have is how do I grow my business? And eventually, marketing must lead to business growth. If marketing is not leading to business growth, then it’s all a waste of time.

Very often we heard entrepreneurs say, you know, I have time for everything else, because most entrepreneurs look at marketing as a nice to have. Because marketing in some ways has this fuddy-duddy image of being just pretty colors and just a pretty logo. And some advertising in long format. That is nice and soppy, but may not necessarily convert to sales. But the reverse is actually mostly true, which is that, If I forget advertising, not just advertising, advertising a small part of marketing, but if everything in marketing does not come together to bring sales, then it’s all a waste of time. And before I keep rambling on, let me tell you a little about CherryPeachPlum.

So CherryPeachPlum comes from a Buddhist philosophy that I follow. This philosophy says that each one of us is unique. Each one of us has very different personality traits and characteristics. And each one of us must shine to our fullest. The cherry does not drive to become a peach or a plum. The cherry wants to be the sweetest cherry that it can be. And similarly, it is for businesses as well. You know, every business is also unique. And the competitive challenges you need the founder makeup is unique, and the culture set up is unique. And each business must be able to shine in its own way. And that’s also the reason why consultants and I hate the word consultancy. I hate to be called a consultant. Because It feels like a whole lot of fuss.

But consultancy is a very, very personalized job. You have to be very personally involved, which is always the reason why mine is a very high-touch, personalized model. I don’t have a very large team. I work with freelancers. But I work very closely with the founders. It’s a very, very hands-on approach. So that’s about CherryPeachPlum.

Yeah, okay. I mean, I expected a lot of different reasons for naming the company, CherryPeachPlum. I didn’t expect Buddhist thought to be the grounding. That’s fantastic. So, the point that you’re making is about how every business is unique and needs to shine in its own way. Which I suppose comes down to having a really unique product, which is so different from everyone else. Right.

Yes. Oh. So see, that’s a very interesting question to ask, Amit. The thing about the product is that it is increasingly becoming more and more difficult to come up with a really unique product because you will come to think of it in the world of FMCG in particular. You stand in front of a shelf that has just so many options for anything that the brain is absolutely (xx). So, you know, you can’t even tell the difference between one product and the other product. And none of us really read everything that’s said on the packaging. We certainly don’t read the back-to-back. We may read some things that jump out at us on the front of the package.

Broadly, the brain is today unwilling to be able to decipher the very, sliver-like differences that might exist between different products. Standing out on the basis of a product, differentiation is very difficult. I’m in no way, discounting the grandeur of that. If one can land at product differentiation, then that’s great. That may be possible today with more technology products or where products are more futuristic. But I keep saying this. And that, you know, today there is so much clutter and competition in absolutely every category. Even to go to space, there are different options. So, it’s almost, nobody has the luxury of saying, well, I’m very unique in this market. So how does one stand out? How one can stand out is in figuring out where else can I make an impact on the consumer.

And this is my challenge of branding or challenge of marketing as a concept is something that deeply interests me. Because as the word itself suggests the challenge of marketing is about challenging convention. It’s about challenging what’s always been done challenging the way consumers view that product or service, and challenging how things are done in the industry. And if you are able to do any one of those parameters on its head, then, you have the ability to stand out.

I think what you’re saying is very valid actually while he was speaking, I was just thinking of ourselves as a podcast, right? So we’re talking about careers, but we are clearly not the only career podcast or we have another one for money. And we’re talking about this one, which is about small businesses. None of this is a unique thing that nobody has ever talked about before. So, yes, you’re right. I mean the product itself would be different in element. I mean, after all, it’s me speaking, versus it, somebody else speaking and our guests would be different from others and so on, but ultimately people will make a decision to listen to us based on other factors that they can see and evaluate relatively easily.

I think this is a really valuable point because most of us think about what we are making, but actually, it’s not only about that, It’s about what else is around it.

Yes. Very well said, absolutely. And it’s not just about standing out. It’s also about the way business gets done. Do you know? So for example, as you were saying, I realized that a client of mine, they have beautiful products and I ordered a lot of their products. They also have their own website. But I have never found it convenient enough to order stuff from their own website, even though I get higher discounts and more freebies if I would order from their website. I always ended up ordering from Zomato. And why do I go to Zomato only because that interface is just so much easier?

It’s very easy to find and I’m used to that interface. So I know exactly what to do, where to go, you know? Even if I know I’m being 40 rupees more over here, I prefer to buy it off Zomato. Sometimes it’s not about the discounts or about how great my product might be. Sometimes it’s the ease, it’s the convenience, it’s the ability to stand out. It’s the ability to give the consumer something to talk about. Look at Bira, for example. Bira is a craft beer, which comes at a premium. And how did Bira become a household name today? It stuck out against the vast majority of the whole lot of beer brands that otherwise came to the market with that one funny monkey that monkey speaks.

Yeah. Actually, this is pretty good. I mean, Bira is a great example, right? Because there’s a zillion beers and the mass market ones obviously would have almost a monopoly on, you know, you seeing them anywhere. As we went anywhere to buy beer, you pretty much see the usual ones over there. So these people have stuck out by, essentially, just creating an entirely different imagery in your head.

Exactly. So this brand was created by an artist. You know, the guy, the founder. He’s basically an artist, he’s a graphic designer and this is what he keeps himself most occupied with. So he just had crazy fun with that monkey, all of the things that that monkey can do, and that brand became an iconic brand. So, you know, you want to stick out even in the bar while the rest are ordering KingFisher, you’re looking at being different. Oh, you’re ordering Kingfisher. I’m going to order the Bira blond or Bira white.

Or look at OnePlus and what OnePlus has done. OnePlus launched with very small budgets as compared to some of the biggies. They had competition up against Apple and Samsung. And one would have thought everything in the world of mobile phones by ways of features or by ways of camera quality, et cetera, it’s all been done to death. One would think there’s nothing more one could possibly bring as an innovation, but the way they brought themselves to the market, it was impossible to not notice them.

Because they didn’t come in any advertising at all. For the first time, they use influencer marketing. And they had a whole stream of videos. A lot of videos just talked about the unboxing of the OnePlus. It’s a damn phone. I can’t understand the fascination that unboxing a phone, you know, that’s a box and a phone and it got out of it, but the unboxing?

Oh, unboxing is a big deal now. I mean, my son is eternally looking at unboxing videos. In fact, whenever we buy anything new, he actually unboxes it.

So that’s what they do. They did this, these unboxing, and then they were the first ones who had the goal to say that you can acquire this phone only by invite.

Excuse me, you should be grateful and willing to buy off what I have money. No, You know, you must have an invite to be able to buy my phone. I mean, how crazy is that? And that’s how they made, you know, waves in the market. And suddenly there was this. You know, have you managed to land a OnePlus? Do you not have a OnePlus? Did you get the invite? Did you not get the invite? So it’s crazy stuff like that that sticks out in the mind.

Being a marketer today is both very challenging, it’s very stimulating and it’s more fun than ever before. Because everything has just become so much more difficult. You have to figure out how can I stand out. How can I capture that consumer’s imagination was otherwise very bored, with very short attention spans, who doesn’t want to read anything, has a ton of choices and you know, bargains online and offline, and you’re always thinking about.

So I have a lot of my clients who’ll talk about differentiating on price alone. And I keep telling them that that is the worst thing to do. You don’t want to differentiate on price. You don’t want to say the best price for your car. You don’t want to say the best price for the phone or whatever else. Sorry. I’ve gone all over the place.

No, I think this is good because essentially what you’re seeing. So I think one point that you’re making, I think it’s coming out pretty clearly, is that. Earlier it used to be that you said, here is my product is the best product in the market on whatever terms you define and you say, and I’m giving it to you at the lowest price. And that was it. So, you just worked on that, but now, uh, because of all the choice and differentiation.

We’ve opened up the entire gamut of everything that a person could think about when they’re buying the product. And so therefore you can actually differentiate on so many other more interesting things. And you mentioned something like the packaging. So that’s in the case of one plus, and I’m sure in many other situations for the Bira as well. I think it’s about the packaging and the messaging. So how do you present to the customer and how they’ve managed to stand out versus the old brand or the fuddy-duddy sort of plan? So those are two points. It’s the packaging and how you present it to the consumers.

Yes. It could be packaging, it could be how you present yourself to the customer. Imagine if it could be in the delivery of the product. Maybe it’s just crazy delivery trucks, I don’t know. There’s no brand today that I can think of that differentiates on the delivery. Actually today. Yeah. There’s Grofers, which is now calling itself Blinkit. Their whole proposition has become 10 minutes delivery and everybody’s talking about that. Or Domino’s earlier that said, you know, 30 minutes or you get a refund for your pizza, which now gives these trying to copy. So, yeah, it could be in the delivery times. It could be.

I mean, I know in the US, when Uber and Lyft were competing with each other. Lyft used to, in its early days, they had these huge pink mustaches which stays to stick on their cars. So you always knew that it was a Lyft roaming around versus Uber was like a normal black car. So, that’s another way I think of when you say delivery, it’s not fight delivery, maybe it’s the packaging. But essentially what is coming to you looks very different.

Exactly. And that’s true. I mean, I see a lot of boutique chocolate brands, for example. You know, a lot of the gourmet chocolates, we pick up only for the packaging. Not for what the chocolate inside itself might be. I mean, it could be in the way you present yourself on the shelf. I remember, especially in the world of snacks in our country, as you go. Forget country. I mean, even in Delhi, the moment pops snack store, is so crowded with so many different options. If you see the ladi or the strings of snacks, which hang on the road outside at any point in time for a large store, there could even be 500 strings hanging.

This is the same everywhere. This is, I mean, India, but of course same in the Philippines. Same in Vietnam, everywhere. Where there’s a corner store it’s stuffed because those people need to sell a lot of different things in small quantities to make up their cash flow. So, what you’re saying is right, I mean, there is no self-respecting corner shop that has anything less than hundreds of things stuck.

Yes. Now, imagine if there is a young brand that has a great product, I mean great snacks, I even have grade packaging and I’m hanging there on that road, which has 500 other strings. Now, what am I supposed to do? I have to grab the consumer’s attention. I don’t have the money that an ITC or a Pepsi has. But I don’t have that much money to out-shout them in mainstream media or even give them the gift, treat the kind of trade margins the big companies might be giving them. So now what do I do? So there’s this example of a crazy company I saw, they have given this, it was like a rotating light projector. And you fix it you know, at the shop somewhere, a little above the road and it made crazy projections on the ground and it was battery operated.

It’s like a disco light for the shop.

Yeah. So this small entrepreneur doesn’t have any fancy concepts of standing out and doing marketing or any of that, but the guy has figured out that look, there’s a crazy number of brands over here. And I have to capture the consumer’s attention. I’m not winning this unless I do something crazy. And that’s what the guy did. And I thought that was so smart. It was one of those cheap Chinese devices and you could fix that. And the shopkeepers are also very happy because the shopkeepers are like, is this a drama? This. you know, not, don’t give it to happening in front of my shop, which is not happening in other shops.

Yeah, exactly. So it’s helping the shop stand out. I think the beauty of this thing is apart from the fact that the consumer is getting attracted by this light show, the shopkeeper is interested in keeping our merchandise, even without the trade margins and everything else that they would get from others because it’s adding value to them.

Again, in the decision-making journey, we keep thinking about the consumer side, but to get the consumer, you also have to first get the person who’s going to keep your thing, the showroom or the shop, or if you’re using any kind of channel partner. So in that case, what you’re saying is you have to also think about how to be attractive to that channel partner. And by doing that, you might actually get a lot more shelf space in which case, the consumer will notice you, you know, willy-nilly and this could be on digital platforms, et cetera, as well. If you can figure out an angle that makes you attractive to the platform.

Yes, it could be on digital platforms. For example, on digital just yesterday. I was looking at this Instagram feed of one brand. Now, you know, they are a clothing brand and was looking at them. The Instagram grid. It’s the whole grid up there. The profile is just the big picture, which are occupying those small dials in the sense that every tile is part of a larger, big picture. And, the whole grid is this large canvas and you’re looking at it only for the sheer beauty of the pictures, you know, and it’s just creating a lot of attitude in the way it presents itself Again.

Yeah, that’s pretty cool actually.

Yeah. And the other thing that I was thinking about was you know, sometime back Unilever turned media convention on its head. We always think of advertising where the consumer will hopefully consume me if my ad is really entertaining if it really has some shock value, some sob value when I’m able to make it so that people might notice and people might watch my ad. But one thing Unilever did was to make it such that they had consumers asking to listen to that content. It was all by demand and how did they do that? So, you know, in India, we have this concept of a missed call, basically. We don’t want to spend time calling someone else.

So they said, here is a number you give us a missed call. The moment you give us a missed call, we will call you back and we will play content on the phone of the kind that you want to listen to and a lot of small, small towns and villages where you may not even have access to a radio, you will most likely have a mobile phone.

And so they made the mobile phone, the medium to deliver a quasi-radio channel with a lot of Bollywood songs, and in between the Bollywood songs, they would tell you why you should use Lifebuoy soap or use Ponds cream or Rin for your clothes.

It was a great way of turning media convention on its head. You know, instead of you pushing out stuff, have consumers ask you for advertising or ask you for content.

Wow. That’s actually, that’s pretty cool. And, again, I think there are a few points to take away from this because apart from turning the whole thing on its head. It’s also about consumer understanding again, right? The fact that there are people there who simply won’t get to see any of your content because they are not on that channel or platform or don’t use that device. And so you’ve made it possible for people actually, to reach out to you to get that content. And you’ve wrapped your message in the thing that they actually want. That’s pretty cool as well.

Yes. With media, I always tell my clients now that it’s always just better to do a lot of short formats. So I’m a good advocate of short format or a great advocate of advertising that sticks out and is consistent. That’s another way of standing out by the way. I mean, what is standing out? Standing out basically means that I have the ability to stick in the consumer’s mind because if I don’t stick in the consumer’s mind, then she’s not going to remember me when the time is right.

And what do some of the brands, P&G brands, for example, what does P&G do in order to stick in the mind? They stay consistent. So even if they were to do a 10-second, 15-second ad, they have consistent cues that I’m able to tell that, you know, every time I see a swash of white, it’s a Tide. Every time I see gale mein khich khich it’s Vicks. Every time I see a pour of blue liquid on a sanitary napkin, I know it’s Whisper.

So, you know, the brands that stick in your mind are also the ones that stay consistent over a long period of time. And this is again, something that I asked even young business owners who want to think about, think about what goals would you like to codify and adopt for the long term because that makes money a lot more efficient in the way you use them. You’re not asking the consumer to remember you for different reasons every time.

Don’t get trapped into this station of making very pretty creative ads where the storyline is remembered, but you as a brand may not be remembered. It could be some very simple stuff that you do. It could just be the visual look of your website or the language you use. How can you make that consistent? With the way you look with what your Instagram feed is, or with the way your packaging looks or how your product is presented, have consistency in all of that. So it’s easy for the consumer to remember you as a brand.

So essentially, this is pretty cool. So. Essentially you train people to realize that this sort of visual cue means this. But of course, I suppose that has to be done over a long period of time.

Over a long period of time, I want to say that stop thinking about branding only. What is branding basically? Branding is a consistent customer experience. A brand is nothing else. But a consistent customer experience. Why do we buy brands? Because we know what to expect. Because I know that certain quality is reliable. I know what to get and how do I, as a consumer know what to expect? Because I know that this brand has been consistent on blah, blah, blah, blah, blah over a period of time or it’s not just consistent over a period of time. It’s also consistent in everything that it does. So, if a young brand, what does that thinking about, how do I meet the customer experience consistent? Then that in itself is a brand.

Yes. Okay. That’s a really valuable point. That makes sense for all businesses. I mean, maybe even, almost like without thinking about branding and marketing, you’re creating a brand by doing something that you should do anyway which is to make a smooth end-to-end customer experience. So one other thing I’d like to bring out is the concept of using, you know, that the zeitgeist or something that’s happening in their time, like a trend, and riding on that. What about something like Amul which always picks out, I guess a political theme or some topic of the day and talks about that?

Amul has actually done a fantastic job in being able to stick out for just that reason. It’s a great example that you’ve picked them. And such a fantastic example, you pick. You know, it’s become the voice of the nation. It has the ability to make the nation laugh. It can satire anything, and you look out for that to become an iconic brand, but just that outdoor campaign you notice that, you know, for the longest time they were an outdoor brand only. And I’m just on the back of that outdoor, which was very topical and had a satirical or hilarious take on what was news at that time? They’ve been able to stick out for just that, Amul has become such an iconic brand.

Yeah. It’s a great example. So actually, you know, being able to stick out or being able to, create memorability in the consumer’s mind, does not take a lot of money. Usually, the thinking is that if I have to create a brand, I have to do marketing. Then it will mean lots of money. No, not at all. It doesn’t have to mean lots of money at all. It just means, thinking about what you as a brand will stand for. So this is an exercise that I do with most clients of mine. Actually, the problem is most of us as business owners are unable to articulate in a few words, exactly what we offer. Why should the consumer buyers? Which in our lingo, we call the proposition.

But just sorting out that is usually the most difficult part you see on most websites. A lot of websites are unable to adequately explain why must you even go ahead. You know, now we’ve become very impatient. Assuming that the website loading time itself has not been made sure once I land on the website and I want to know exactly what is it that you offer. Why must I spend more time on this website? Then I want to know, are you reliable? Do you have enough testimonials? Do you have enough proof points and why do you work? I want to see examples of case studies or if there’s stuff that you’re offering. If you’re selling a product, I want to quickly be able to navigate through everything that you sell and be able to get to what I want to buy.

So, just simplicity and having clarity of thought on what you offer from a consumer lens in itself is the biggest step towards building a brand.

Wow. That actually is a, I think that’s a very good kind of articulation of how to think about branding overall because you’re right. It starts with you being clear about what you are versus trying 20 different things and spending a lot of money on those 20 different things, trying to convince the customer to just buy. You need to be something.

Absolutely. And, you know, I also found that even in the largest organizations, I might be talking about an organization that might be doing 300 crores (3 billion) plus. Even in an organization like that, we would have asked five different employees, what business are you and you would get five different answers. And that doesn’t help. You know, you need to have one version of the truth, one version of why you exist, and one version of what you offer the consumer. There has to be one version of that because even in the company itself, we are not able to articulate that then how do you expect consumers to see that one version of the truth to understand you as the guys that offered this, the guys that deliver this, the guys that make my life easier in this way. If we ourselves in the organization, don’t have a handle on that.

Yeah. That’s right. So, Vani thanks a lot. I think this was a really insightful conversation. And if you don’t mind, let me try to summarize some of the points that we discussed for the benefit of people trying to take action, hopefully immediately after this. I’m super excited to take action, actually based on a lot of things that you said.

So I think the first point that you made is that product differentiation is hard. So unless you have something truly unique. You’re going to have to find ways to differentiate on something else and that something else can’t be the price. I mean, it can be, but those are not the only two options available to people.

The second point is you need to know what you stand for so that you can clearly articulate that to your customers, to your channel partners, and to everybody involved in the whole journey of getting people to decide and buy your product.

The third point was therefore you need to look at the decision-making journey and try to number one, make it a smooth uniform thing that is consistent in every step because that itself is a part of your branding. And also look for points of differentiation within that journey, which could help you stand out. And examples of those things would be things like, you mentioned packaging, the claims that you make to the customer, maybe those claims could be quite surprising. The way you present yourself to the customer, how you look on the shelf or how you stand out on the shelf, and how the product actually gets delivered to you. Making things relatively simple so that people don’t have to do all have a lot of cognitive overloads to try and figure out what you’re about and whether to buy you or not.

Other examples, and other points you made were things like having some sort of a visualization that people can start to associate with you. Think about the channel partner experience. So can you make it so interesting for the partner that you will end up standing out because they want you to be front and center? Perhaps wrapping your message in what people actually want. So, people might need entertainment, and you give them the entertainment, but you put your story into that as well.

And none of these things actually need a lot of money. It needs a reasonable amount of upfront thought so that you can design the perfect end-to-end experience, which reflects you, your personality, and what you stand for. The money can come afterward, but it’s not necessary. Do you think that’s a fair summary?

That is fantastic. I mean, that’s fantastic. I couldn’t have said it as well, myself.

Well, you did say it as well. Actually much, much better.

No, this is great. Absolutely, this is good. You made it a two-minute masterclass. I just had to catch the last bit of the podcast, one would have it all.

So, once again, Vani, thank you so much for joining us today. I think this was a very interesting conversation because you have really a lot of experience in this area and you worked on so many different things, both with yourself and with your clients, and I’m sure everybody’s going to take away a lot of valuable stuff from this, and actually a lot of ways to think about their business and their marketing. So I really appreciate that.

And maybe you can, you’ll get something extra valuable out of that interaction. So, once again, Vani, thank you for being with us today.

Thank you so much. Totally enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much.

So did I. Thanks a lot. And this was Amit and Vani with ShopTok. See you all next time.