TS9 | ChanelCoco On Tasty Toastys, Transitioning To Web3 And Community-Building

Chanel shares with us how she transitioned from a regular job to Web3 and then to founding Tasty Toastys and the power of community building in the NFT space. She also shares with us her top tips for navigating the world of Web3.

Discussion Topics: ChanelCoco on Tasty Toastys, transitioning to Web3 and Community-Building

• Developing an interest in Web3
• Conceptualising Tasty Toastys
• Building an engaged community
• The importance of integrity
• Challenges with finances
• Speculation in Web3
• Why DeFi has been a boon to some
• Future paths for Chanel and Tasty Toastys
• 3 tips on the Web3 space

Transcript: ChanelCoco on Tasty Toastys, transitioning to Web3 and Community-Building

Vnstr: Hi everybody. Welcome to this week’s episode of ‘The Token Singaporean’, my name is Vnstr. And today we have another special guest with us. And this guest is a dear friend of mine and she also started her own NFT project last year. And well, let’s just welcome her and then we will listen to her story. So welcome Chanel. How are you?

Chanel: Thank you for having me. I’m great.

Vnstr: Where are you right now? You have been travelling a lot recently, right?

Chanel: Oh, yeah. But I’m back in Singapore.

Vnstr: So let’s jump straight into it. Can you tell us more about yourself, like what your background was before entering the space and just your general interests, like, your hobby, that kind of thing?

Chanel: Yeah, sure, So, I’ve kind of been doing a lot of things, hopping from job to job. Before I jumped into Web 3. So I think I had like three full-time jobs after graduating from college. So my degree was in marketing and communications, but I had government bonds and stuff. So out of school, I had to fulfil my duties. And I was very fortunate to be in a department of the Singapore government that was focused on helping grow lifestyle, and fashion businesses. So I was very much exposed to the industry for the first few years of my career. And immediately once the bond was up by going to one of the companies who was one of my accounts, back when I was in the government, I jumped to the private sector. And that was the time of my life.

I spent two and a half years building a sportswear brand that was licensed from a billion-dollar fitness brand. And we were tasked to do the performance apparel and footwear for them. So when I joined from day one, there was nothing. When I left, we were selling to multiple countries worldwide. And we had grown the social media following and marketing. And I can’t remember the exact numbers down but a couple of like 30,000, or something I can’t remember. So, that was a really fun job. I got to travel all over the world, do fashion trade shows, and do photo shoots for the brand. And they really taught me a lot about B2B retail. We were doing it from a wholesale level. And then three months before the world changed things to COVID I happened to leave that job and was making plans to move to New York because I felt that if I wanted to pursue a career in fashion, I should go.

Vnstr: Was that a pre COVID?

Chanel: Yeah, so December 2019, I resigned. And then I was like, Okay, I’ll go travelling. I remember coming home for Chinese New Year and thinking, Okay, after Chinese New Year, it will be a good time to go check out China, but I only travelled to the west, but I’ve never actually been to China until now I’ve been to Hong Kong and Taiwan, which don’t really count as like China, China. But of course, that’s where COVID hit. So I took a completely hard pivot, and I went into tech. So I was doing B2B enterprise tech. And I was very fortunate to get a job in June 2020. I think that’s the year yeah because I think there was a time when a lot of people got retrenched because of COVID. But I managed to get a job in the tech sector. And I was doing enterprise automation partnerships, and by 2021, I had just moved to the sales department. And I happened to also be interviewing for other sales jobs just to kind of get a cadence of the market. And then one of the job interviews I went through, it was for partnerships for an NFT company, and then that’s where everything changed. That’s where I learned about NFT’s as I just couldn’t stop reading about NFT’s or watching YouTube videos about it. And that’s pretty much the origin story of how I tumbled into the rabbit hole.

Vnstr: It’s interesting because like, we were friends from college for those who don’t know, but we have never really been like very close but now that you went me through this process of your life post college, I remember vividly that we never had a chance to meet after we graduated, but I actually met you in January 2019, or 2020. So I remember it very clearly because it was the last wedding that I went to before COVID hit. Remember, we met each other, do you remember?

Chanel: Yes, I remember. But I think you guys were all coming from a wedding, right?

Vnstr: Yes, yes we were all coming from the last wedding before COVID hit literally, there was a last one. And then I remember us catching up and you were telling us that you’re going to move to New York. So I think that was the period if I’m not wrong, and then COVID hit and then we only reconnected again after you tumbled into the rabbit hole. So very interesting, actually now thinking back at how things unfolded and like, listening to your journey actually, it’s been quite a smooth process, like post college, you had to serve a bond and then right after you finish the bond, you could jump into another job. Is it right to say that it wasn’t like a huge difficulty for you in terms of like, job finding and finding something that you really liked that kind of thing?

Chanel: Yeah, I would say the transition between the first two jobs was very natural. In fact, I think I was the first one out of my cohort of colour to leave the agency that I was with because I had already expressed my intro to the boss of that company, the CEO. And he knew that I had to fulfil the last few months of my bond so he was always up in the air whether or not I could join the company, but he didn’t find anyone to fill that position. By the time my bond was up, I was like let’s just go. That was very smooth. But after leaving that, then that’s where things started becoming more like, okay, what do I do now? You know, I’m not going to go to New York, when there is Asian hate because of COVID.

Vnstr: Yeah, I think the Asian hate it was quite serious. I think even until now, there’s still like, remnants of it, you know, it’s just things that we cannot undo, you know, it’s going to take a long time for the world to heal. So my question would be that, you have gone through such a smooth sailing, like, your career has been rather smooth sailing. So, what is it about NFTs that really attracts you so much that you’re willing to give up all of this, and then just fall into the rabbit hole and do something so different?

Chanel: Yeah, it’s a fantastic question because until today I still question myself because sometimes when you learn about a new thing, it really captures your imagination or your attention. But whether or not that is sustained over time that’s something that I think a lot of us have to reflect on. I mean, even if you like, putting this analogy to dating is like, first date, second date, refresh, you know, two years in a relationship Oh, my God, it’s so fresh. So it’s something that I constantly reflect on. But I think what hooked me in at the beginning was, I felt like the playing field was potentially levelled because it’s a very new space and I think I always wanted to do something creative. And I just could never logically let myself do anything that I felt would put me behind my peers in terms of our corporate career ladder. Does that make sense?

Vnstr: I completely understand that because I was a freelancer. So as for other people it always feels like wow, you’re doing something so different. But every end of the year, like, when it’s time to reflect, you know, I always have insecurity, like, what if 10 years down the road, like, I’m still here, but my peers are somewhere else, you know, that kind of thing. There’s always this comparison, even though you know logically that there’s no need for comparison, but I guess, maybe it’s the culture, maybe it’s just human nature, but it happens and it gets to me. Now that I’m 30 years old it shouldn’t get to me so much, but I think in my 20s yeah, I completely understand that.

Chanel: Yeah, and I applaud you for going through that process because now it’s kind of like my turn to go through the instability.

Vnstr: So, getting into the space and everything and maintaining everything is one thing, but this was something that was very fresh, like how long did it take for you to sort of like learn everything that you needed to learn and start? And like the process of just starting it up from ideation all the way up to your launch, how was it like for you? Like, how was the process like for you? How long did it take? And what are some of the highlights that you would like to share throughout this journey? Let’s just talk about ideation to launch, like post launch is another story, because we both know that, but yeah, it’s crazy. But let’s just focus on that short period, what was it like?

Chanel: So there’s two parts to it. The first part, maybe I covered the immediate one, which was when I started learning about what NFT’s it was only July of 2021. I think that’s when I went for the interview, that should be around that period. So after the interview, my mind blew wide open. I was like, what is this space, so I just binge watched YouTube videos and read so many articles and went on NFT tutor and by the time, it was all good so maybe about five to six weeks of just reading about it, I decided that I would buy NFT to just try it out. And the intention of buying it was to kind of if I could trade it wasn’t really that easy. And also just curiosity like why people are doing this.

So that was about six weeks, and literally, one week after buying my first NFT, I bought my second one together with my brother. And that night, we couldn’t buy it because it was sold out instantly and we had to trade on secondary with the buyer of secondary. And he was very frustrated with how it seems a bit unfair for people who want to get into the space. And then like, why do you have to burn gas, was this thing or is it only for like, people who already know ideas, and he was like, tell you what, let’s do our own. The initial part of that possibility if we could do our own, but the journey leading up to it, while it may seem fast in that time span, I think we already learned and knew about crypto and blockchain from 2017.

So I had a bit of Ethereum, like a tiny, tiny bit. And my brother who helped me do all the tech behind the project he was not a blockchain believer or crypto believer at all. He was like, I don’t see the value of this process, you know, currency. And he didn’t really feel like blockchain was going to like change the world and everything. So we were quite pragmatic. But when it came to NFT, he was like, I get it, because there’s an emotional connection to art. And it’s not going to be the same kind of culture, necessarily, that is with ICOs and coins. So, both of us are very much enamoured by the level of creativity that could potentially be expedited using NFTs as a medium.

So I think for us to get in, because we already had some foundational knowledge about crypto, I didn’t like totally starting from scratch. It was a kind of understanding of the pivot into NFT. And I read the news passively about crypto here and there for like two years. And then the idea for Coasty it was always my dream to start a brand so pyjamas on LinkedIn, and call it Coasty.  It was very comfortable. And I didn’t see any brand really utilising it. So, we were kind of thinking what NFT three wanted to do. The first idea was actually for my brother. He wanted to do Wings because he felt like Wings would be very equippable. I don’t think I’ve shared this publicly before the Wings. And I don’t even know if you’ve heard of it one.

Vnstr: No, I haven’t actually.

Chanel: Yeah, actually, the first one he wanted to do was wings. And he thought we could do different styles of wings, and it will be interoperable across the different Metaverse, gaming platforms because all the characters are a cool transportation device for all characters, but artistically also having a challenge both of us don’t know how to use Blender and do 3D art. So we were like, we don’t have time to learn this, let’s just stick with 2D. So then he was like, why don’t you do your Coasty idea like why don’t we change it, try to see if we can do a pan making a meme. And that’s where I felt, oh my gosh, is perfect, you know, because let’s get this. Let’s make money. It will appeal to the speculators hopefully. And then I can still be testing it in the future. Like Hawaii Bran, maybe. So that was kind of how it started.

Vnstr: Super interesting, actually, especially the wings part actually come to think of it, it would have been a pretty cool idea. I mean, if you could have done it, because it will be something cool in the metaverse is something that I haven’t actually seen yet, like a lot of people are doing, like providing like apparels that you already see in real life. But actually, you know, the thing about Metaverse is that there’s so much that you can do that is like I mean, why would you want to be someone that you already are in real life in the Metaverse, you want to be someone completely different to have completely, like, whatever abilities that you cannot have here. Like, for example, if I went to Metaverse, I’m not going to make my avatar look like me in real life. like why, like I have a chance to think about all sorts of like, create a character that is what I want. I’m rambling right now. But I just think it’s a very cool idea. I think in fact; you can still continue to think about it. I think it might be cool.

Chanel: I completely forgot until this conversation.

Vnstr: Now we are open and you can open.

Chanel: Yeah, you’re absolutely right, we can still think about it. Because the concept on the metaverse, the projects that were coming out last year, it’s so different from your points now. So, maybe what we thought last year would have been useless, depending on the platform, because it was very platform dependent that idea. But toasties just IP very, very vague, overarching things. So I feel like, over time we can evolve.

Vnstr: Right. And I guess those days, I think we’ve come a long way. I mean, I’m part of the community as well. And I see that we have come a long way. Of course, if we talk about floor price, that kind of thing we can’t compare to a lot of other NFT projects out there. But one thing that we have that a lot of high price, NFTs don’t have is also a strong and genuine community, even though it’s small, but people there are genuine people there are really there not just for the project, but also from one another. And I guess at the end of the day, this is what it’s about, you know, when it comes to building a community. So let’s talk about this journey from post until now, what are some of the things that you think you sort of managed well during this journey? And then the next question will also be what are some of the things that you would prefer to have done differently on hindsight?

Chanel: Oh, man, I think there are more negative things than positive things I can say.

Vnstr: But I also think that’s often because like, we always see the negative, we always like see positive as it should have been, you know, because it hits our goal. So we don’t really think about that. But when things go wrong, that is when all our energies are put into it. But it’s okay, if there are more things that you want to highlight that you could have done differently that’s fine, as well, like, whatever you think that you can share when you reflect upon this thing.

Chanel: Yeah, of course. So Avatar is the good stuff. I think the good stuff is that somehow, through all of the doubt that I had, and the doubt that maybe other people had on me, I managed to stay true to what I want to do for the brand and for the community. And I have been quite consistent in that void. So I think that is one good thing. The other good thing, which could also be a bad thing, but it’s both, we get the pros and cons of this is that I am not extremely reactive to trends. Because I feel like it could go both ways. If we hop on a trend, and it works great.

But if we hop on the trend, and it kills our project, then that’s it. One trend I’m thinking of is game Fire, Game fire is completely wrecked this year. I’m so grateful that I didn’t completely pivot and just sell out and be like, you know are we’re going to do gaming, or we’re going to do staking, we’re going to tokenomics because that was what a lot of people were asking of us at the beginning after we sold out. But my brother and I, we knew that we were not equipped to take on building a game, it is not our expertise, nor do we have the resources or we were raised enough to do something as gigantic as that, so we didn’t do that.

Vnstr: If I can just add on to this one good thing that I personally feel like you’ve done very well. And this is also in relation to something that I heard from I think one of an interview with Gary Vee or something like that. So he mentioned that as committee founders, what you should be doing is not trying to provide the value based on what other people are providing to other people. Like as in what other people are providing to their communities, it should be like reflecting on the inside thinking about what value you can bring, like, as a person based on like, the skills that you have that kind of thing.

And all that other people are doing it’s just white noise because on one hand, like, if other people are already doing it, why do you want to provide the same kind of value? And I think this is something that you have consistently done. And also another thing is that, like, if you are really a project founder, regardless of how the market is you continuously try to provide value to the community in ways that you can, you know, you don’t just hide in a hole when it’s the bear market, and then come out to play when it’s the bull market. So I think this consistency is also why you manage to form this community that is so close and tight knitted and I think that’s great.

Chanel: Yeah, thank you. That’s something I also wanted to highlight. I think one of the biggest wins is our community team. We have a fantastic discord moderator and manager. And now she’s also helping us with our social media accounts, Instagram, as well, as you know, our community host based in the US, Jeff. I think he brings the energy to the table every week on a trader’s basis. Even if we don’t have announcements, you know, everyone’s just there to hear from us and have a good time. And remember what is the vision that we’re trying to build in for the next 10, 20 years. So Jeff, is someone that we hired, post mint from the community, he wrote to me the night after we sold out.

And it took me two weeks to confirm the role because I did interview quite a few different people, I went on LinkedIn, and I tried to just make sure I wasn’t missing any gaps. But eventually, it still went back to Jeff because he truly demonstrated that he was here to help fulfil a long term vision, and he knows how early we are in the space. And so we worked so well together. And I’m just so grateful that it addresses the biggest win post launch. And I think having the right team is so important. I’m so grateful like me every step of the way as well. Because I think whatever form and shape it takes in the future, it is hard to say for certain When Gary Vee started his business I don’t think he expected it to be in the form it is today. But he probably had people or support system or even his own vision that he knew this was something that he was going to work on and the tribe that you surround yourself which is so important, very regular that we have a very good foundation.

Vnstr: And I think it seems the way he thinks is also like, he is able to continue with this very honestly, because he does it with this integrity that I know like people can you know how many people like to say shit about Gary Vee that he’s like a scam, like, he’s a rock, that kind of thing, because his pictures don’t quite make sense. You know, that kind of thing. But it’s like, he always goes with this thinking that, I will make sure that I give value to the community. Like, even if whatever I promised doesn’t work, I will think about what I can do, to continue to give back. So in a way, he’s the one in control as to whether his community will be what is that? I suddenly lost my train of thoughts.

Chanel: Benefit in the long run.

Vnstr: Yeah. So like, with that kind of integrity, you can’t really go wrong, in a sense.

Chanel: Yeah, so I was also watching one of his videos, so many of his videos, I don’t know if it was the same one. But he mentioned that you’re investing really in people because at the end of the day, the person that built something they are like, truly a person of integrity, I think they will always look back at who are their first supporters and the first supporters are likely to be the most rewarded eventually. And I think we see this in the startup space as well. It’s not a new concept.

Even in the web 3 space, like I want to highlight one of the projects MoonBoots, why MoonBoots did so well. A lot of it was based on Kevin roses reputation of being a serial entrepreneur. And he’s already established himself the past 10, 20 years in this space. So of course when you come out to do this, people are looking at past track records and I’m sure a lot of the people who benefited from MoonBoots were his initial circle, his initial network, because they were the first to come and support him. And they wouldn’t have had that confidence in him if they didn’t already know him from something else.

So I’ve been thinking a lot, like, whatever else I go to build later on, who are the supporters, who are the community that I will reward in the future in whatever shape or form. Obviously, the first people that I want to reward are my first ever supporters. That’s something that I’m hoping I can see through the next 10, 20 years. And another thing also that I think the good thing before we go on, I think I’ve been focused on doing a lot of speaking engagements and meetings with people outside of the web 3 space. So it might not immediately reflect on Tasty Coastys on the flop, but these conversations are so important to have, because the world is still kind of opening up their minds to this space. And when things evolve, like the industry evolves, I want to be there to be one of the first few people they’re like, oh, yeah, I talked to Chanel before I learned about coastys before, let me go hit her up, see what’s going on.

I want to position myself as a thought leader in the space in the long run. Yeah, I think there are some other things I did well. I think one part that I really struggle with is pushing out more content on the art side of things. Because I am both the artist and also the BD person. And on a long list of my to-do list, I always do the BD things first, because it comes more naturally to me than to draw. So some things like doing a rehaul of the website design, the wireframes are really done, the first drafts are already done, but we just haven’t sat down to continue the art and it feels like a bit of a roadblock for me, mental block, but I will do that. Just in terms of prioritisation, I think that’s something that I’m still figuring out. And the other thing that I wish I did better was to change the whole Treasury when E force,

Vnstr: But that we never know. Yeah, I guess.

Chanel: So we needed money to do the roadmap. So we had to change these out. And unfortunately, I changed it at a pretty low price. So that’s the project. I think it’s just the learning points, treasury management.

Vnstr: Yeah, Financial Management within the company. Especially I mean, this is a completely new thing if you were building like a web 2 company versus a web 3 company, you never had to think about this volatility in prices, that kind of thing. And it’s very hard. I mean, who knows like, in one day, it sounds so crazy, you cannot really tell. So I think like money management in web 3 companies is also going to be a completely new topic, like, how are you going to manage it such that you can still leverage on the rising prices when it goes bullish, but at the same time, you also keep enough such that you can still sustain a company that kind of thing it is so complicated to me. I don’t think I’ll be able to do it well, as well.

Chanel: Yeah. There were moments where like, oh, maybe I should treat the Treasury so that we can grow it. But then of course, there’s the fear that you trade wrongly, or some people are like, ready to buy NFT’s and hold it. And when NFT goes up, you sell you get to the Treasury. I remember when NFTs was still doing really well I remember asking the team a couple of times, but in the end, I never pulled the trigger, because I was just so fearful. Thankfully, I didn’t, but then again, I also didn’t change out if at a good rate in the end.

Vnstr: I think this money management thing is one of the biggest lessons learned in this bear market. Because you look at how many investment firms that were doing so well during the bull market, just like one by one they all just went bust in this bear market because of the way they handled the funds. It’s so crazy. I mean, hopefully, the lessons learned in this bear market will not be repeated in the next bull market, hopefully so and we’re all still learning. So let’s just see how it goes.

Chanel: Yeah, I think luckily, our strategy was always to have a typical ecommerce business, and the goal for me, it was always to sell the product to people who don’t even know about NFTs that I want to grow the brand externally. Because it already came from this frame of mind, before I used web 3 for NFTs to kind of start the brand there was always this foundational thought process that we could go back to, I think there were some projects that came out. And their whole roadmap is purely NFT based, or purely web 3 based and so to suddenly make the pivot or change the narrative, maybe it’s a bit more difficult for them. But for us, just like, oh, okay, fine. NFTs are down, never mind. Let’s go focus on the plushies.

Vnstr: In a way yes because like, when it comes to, if your plan is very web 3 based, very lofty so when everything goes down, if you want to switch to something more, I wouldn’t say, I mean, for lack of a better way of saying it more traditional, down to earth even if you do that your community might not agree, because they didn’t sign up for this. So it’s going to be an issue as well. So, that’s crazy. Okay. Next thing, what aspects do you specifically like about the web 3 space? And what are some things that you really hate and you wish to change?

Chanel: So what I like about it is the underlying ethos that we are trying to make the playing field better for creators, you know, the topic of royalties has been quite hot lately, because people are not trading NFT for students to opt in, they get to bypass paying creators their royalties. And people are like, excuse me, wasn’t the whole point of the space so that you could make sure that every secondary sale of a collectible art goes back to the creator. So that was what drew me into the space, that it was just another tool that will decentralise power and give that back to creatives or creative, or even brand owners, the royalty system in a structure.

So what I don’t like about it is that most of the first movers, they are traders and speculators. So this particular point that I’m bringing shows the other side, the dark side of it, is that a lot of people are in here to make quick money and get out. And so while I am grateful to the speculative nature of the space, because that’s what gave it its rise, we should also be mindful that that’s not, you know, the ethos with which the space was built for to begin with so it has some flows and I think it’s about striking a balance between the two. But yeah, I wish there would be less of this. And I believe there will be less of this over time. But for now it is something that creators need to be very, very wary of it and find ways to embrace it but at the same time, know that’s not what the end goal, or the ultimate vision should be because I think the whole point of blockchain, you know, why Satoshi Nakamoto wrote about Bitcoin to begin with, it was always to provide an alternative to the current financial systems or the current government.

And I know a lot of people are like, Oh, we’re not ready for work, too. I went through Yeah, but we still web 2.1, 2.5, 2.75, and 9 I heard that last night. And I agree with that. But I think, again, it just boils down to striking that balance between what was once idealistically versus what we can do now. And what we can do now, where can we put in small little drips of more of the idealistic vision so that over time, we are kind of moving towards the ideal vision, although of course, we need to balance it at the end of the day, I’m going around circles, but that’s what I mean.

Vnstr: Yeah, I get what you mean. And you know, the thing about it is that like, if you’re not in the space, I think a lot of people who are not in the space, they don’t see how develop the space already is. I think a lot of people still think of crypto in as like how it was in 2017 like this as it is, the tech has evolved so crazily, there’s so many bidders that are bidding on top of this, but they don’t know about this, because it’s not big yet.

So like, if you’re in the space, I think going through the process of like improving the space and seeing how the space evolve, you can also kind of get a sense of like how fast it is, like how we always talk about how being in web 3 like, one month feels like a year, you know, and if you are constantly going through with this speed, in a way, like if you think about it, it will not take long for it to double up in terms of its tech processes, in terms of improvements, that kind of thing.

And then for the outside world, I think it’s always like that, you know, people are only willing to embrace something when it’s perfect and ready for them. I guess what it means to be ready will be like when it’s recognized officially by the government or when it’s fully embraced by their favourite like web 2 companies, web 2 brands, that kind of thing. And that is when the masses will accept it as it is. And then it will be a switch. I mean, the turn from web 2 point whatever, to web 3 will feel to them almost like a switch. This is how I feel it will evolve but I don’t know but I guess.

Chanel: I think it makes sense. Because I don’t expect more people to care about decentralisation, like pure decentralisation. I don’t expect people to care about alternative methods of currencies, if they are in countries that are so developed like Singapore, we send fast payments to one another. Why the hell do you need Bitcoin? And I think most consumers just want to be able to use something easily. One of my analogies that I always used to explain to people is that you use the internet every day. You know how the internet works?

No. I mean, do I know how the internet works? Not really. I just use it. So I think until the products out there that have found a way to make it easy for people to use and there are benefits to using it, other than using what they’re using now then we will start to see mass adoption, perhaps the flag is to be carried by somewhere to companies first. But then of course, you know, if you’re a pure decentralisation evangelist, then you’re like, oh, no, no, no, I don’t know I like Facebook to cover and take over metal and stuff.

But then reality of it is, it’s very difficult to get people to switch platforms, unless there’s a very clear user experience that it is so different from what the, you know, being able to do. We never know. There have been instances like, Snapchat. Snapchat came out of nowhere. And then Facebook wanted to buy them over meta wanted them over, but then they said no. And then, Meta went and built their own platform on Instagram.

So we never know how it would roll. But then on the other hand, like, it could be to the point now where, you know, Facebook is dying, because no cool kids want to use Facebook although everyone’s grandmas on it. And even Instagram is maturing. So obviously, Gen Z has now moved to TikTok, but what is going to be the next TikTok? Now that’s a question that I think would interest me for the next 10 years.

Vnstr: That’s absolutely right. And to add on to one of your point, which you said that, we are in a very developed country where everything works right. So in a way, we didn’t have to care about all this, like, why do we need alternative currency when, for example, for us, SGD is strong as hell. I mean, it’s stable, it’s strong, but I want to share this thing. I don’t know if I’ve shared with you before, but I was at Dazzle and then there was this very old woman, her back is literally hunched until like those kind of almost 90-degree kind.

That she was walking towards us. You look at her, she’s just one of those people that you wouldn’t even think she even used like, mobile phones, that kind of thing. But she came to us like I was at the ledger booth. She came to us and she was sharing with us how much Bitcoin changed her life. So because she lives in Palestine I think. And then prior to that, whatever they earn was just taken away from them in terms of value, like they will never ever be able to save any money.

It was like this poverty cycle, they could never get it off because of how bad the government is, how shitty their currency is, so on and so forth, until they got to use Bitcoin and they use it as a store of value to sort of like, save up and that kind of thing. And now she can travel around to see the world, that kind of thing. Well, it’s so inspiring to listen to this. And it really made me realise, like, this is a first world blindness to the real applications that cryptocurrency can give to other parts of the world that really need it. It’s crazy. Now that I talk about it, I still feel the impact, as like when she told me about it, it is quite crazy.

Chanel: Yeah. I mean, I have respect for everyone who is focused on building out these solutions for the unbanked or the underbanked because I think that’s where this technology really makes a big difference. There’s a lot of excitement about the next cool thing, or the next way to make more yield from Defy. But all of that is still the same with people getting richer game to some extent, of course, more people can take part in it, it is decentralised.

But you and I both know, the whales, they still get to benefit out of that more than other people. But when you’re talking about technology that helps the underbanked like, oh, my gosh, that’s so great, because then that’s where decentralisation or like, removing power from corrupt government, that’s where it makes such a big difference.

Vnstr: Exactly. And maybe we don’t get to see a shift in power, after all, because the rich are already rich, they can just get in and just stay in the same place. But to be able to include these people I think that’s a huge difference. You know, that’s a huge impact. And hopefully, we get there and more people can benefit from this.

Chanel: Yeah, it’s not a zero sum game. It is not like you have to immediately solve poverty. But if you get up there, even like a percentage of people, it’s really a great win.

Vnstr: Exactly. I think when you go for interviews, people ask you this question as well, like, clear horizon is very long to predict in this space. So where do you see yourself maybe a year from now? Or where do you wish to see yourself like, is it going back to corporate or is it like, doing something else in web 3, you know, where do you see yourself in one year’s time?

Chanel: So I’m exploring a few things now. I mean, obviously, tasty coastys I’m still working on it. Gradually, we have the lot coming out of the e-commerce store doing to get FDA approval, so maybe I can sell kaya into the US market.

Vnstr: By the way, I gave one of the kaya that you gave me to this London colleague and they love it. I think there’s really a market for kaya in Europe. I think they just like it.

Chanel: No, everyone who has tried it was from Singapore. They like it. So there’s a potential kaya Empire coming up. I don’t know yet. But we’ll see. I guess that’s like, more traditional kinds of, people still want to eat, and it’s something consumable. So we’ll see how that one goes. But I think where I see myself in this space is, number one, I think, continuing to educate and do all these speaking engagements and everything.

Recently, I was invited to be a guest lecturer. So, I took up the job, because I felt like it would force me to sit down and create some fast curriculum and see how that will impact people who are taking the class. And hopefully, by the end of it, I will have some material to work with and scale it up, you know, either by doing more online courses, which would be very manageable time wise. If I just put on a platform, and people can access the information themselves, as well, as you know, maybe giving more guest lectures at different institutions because it’s one of those things where when you have a library of information to work with, later on, it becomes a bit more easier to scale because right now I have to do everything from scratch.

That’s one thing. The other thing is I am going to be joining a startup incubator in October. That is one of the non tech founders. So my interest in joining the accelerator was to explore if I could build other tools that I think would bring brands into the NFT space, to the use of having access to analytics, and also integration tools that can bring some of the community members that they might find through brand partnerships in their existing CRM system. So that’s something I’m very interested in because I think that there’s a lot of interest from existing brands, but the way that they are going to get into web 3 it shouldn’t necessarily be that they start their own NFT project instantly or they start their own currency, I think that will completely mess with their whole system. I think there should be a bit more empathy for how they can successfully do this in their corporate setting, without necessarily hauling their entire membership system, or their entire membership program. And the marketers who are in charge of doing this, they need to be able to understand and read the data that they’re bringing in from their marketing programs.

I’m keeping it a little bit vague, because I think there’s still a lot of things to be added up with this idea. But that was kind of what I pitched to the incubator, so I think that’s something that we’re going to explore. I do have some other ideas as well, more shopping related and how you can reward people with crypto, but yeah, we’ll see. I hope that I have these three pillars, tastycoastys, this new start-up space that I want to explore, it might not even be in this direction but there’s the initial idea and the last part was just need to continue to educate.

Vnstr: Actually come to think of it like you’re saying that because you are guest lecturing, and then you are coming up with this course outline with course materials and stuff it could even be a benefit for, like holders to learn more about this space. I think it will be very interesting, actually.

Chanel: So I just started the first class last week, it was an introduction about the history of Bitcoin and stuff. I think the students were like, Oh, my God, so boring. But next week, we’re going to dive into the history of NFT art and NFT culture. And I also invited down two members from the Coasty community, and I invited them down for NFT lectures so I wanted the students to know why people purchase NFT and whatever kind of value that brings to them and these are people who I know collect art for the sake of art.

So I thought, we’ll start there, because I think one of the things I’ve noticed over the years as well, you know, being exposed to different businesses, you know, government officials, and talking with like other creatives is that sometimes they have a very creative brand, but they don’t necessarily know how to market themselves. And if you cannot find a consumer audience that will suit your art style, or you don’t know how to sell your brand, or start your business people who are less creative than you but know these skills, they might be more popular, more successful just because they know how to sell themselves.

Vnstr: Yeah, the narrative is very important.

Chanel: Yes. So I want them to understand and get into the mind behind the NFT collectors. So yeah, it is beneficial for the NFT community as well. Because I mean, even the community, because the first two people who asked about NFT.

Vnstr: Amazing. I mean, you can find crazy, amazing people within the community, even though it’s small.  And what’s so special about it is people connect without knowing one another’s backgrounds. And then when you start to come together, you start to understand people better, you realise that they have so much to contribute, and these are people that you otherwise might not have connected in like a regular setting.

Chanel: Yeah, absolutely. I’ve met some new people this year.

Vnstr: It’s crazy. Okay, before we end off the podcast, I just want to ask you to give everyone top three tips and tricks to survive the web 3 space, what would be your top three tips and tricks so far like the guest speakers that I’ve invited, almost, I think at least two or three of the tips and tricks are pretty similar actually. It’s quite interesting. So let’s see what’s yours.

Chanel: All right. My first tip is to recognize that everyone here is experimenting and exploring. So I think when you’re coming in, it seems very daunting. Regardless, you know what position you’re trying to do you’re just investing or you’re trading or you’re creating, or you’re growing a community. I think a lot of it is trial and error. So what looks like overnight success for someone or maybe even someone starting at the same time as you, but they tried something else and it worked. But then you went a different route, and it didn’t work. I think it’s just to know to be mindful that there is no necessarily one fixed template yet.

So I think that the main tip to survive is just keep building, I think time in the space counts for more than anything else because over time you learn. So that’s the first tip. The second one is, I think, to surround yourself with people who have good intentions, because I have read a lot of stories from other founders or other people in the space, who maybe didn’t get into very good communities to begin with.

And when the market is bullish, you know, of course, everyone is patting each other on the back, charring for one another, or when the market is bearish suddenly people disappear, or their mental health takes a dive, because they have lost a lot of money or not even money in terms of like, the amount of time you spend in the space, you feel like you lost all of that. So, I think finding a good community is going to be very, very important for your survival. Because at the end of day, money comes and goes, but your support system, it’s necessary for your internal happiness and survival. Second one, find good people.

Vnstr: It is very interesting, because so far, your two tips and tricks are completely different from other people’s. So it’s nice, it’s fresh, it is great. Makes me realise that, you know, as a founder, like the things you feel you should do to survive is very different from someone coming from a security perspective, someone coming from, like, for example, for Dawn, like even his tips and tricks is also different. Yeah, very interesting.

Chanel: The last tip, I think, is to not over invest what you cannot afford to. And this is so important, I think maybe this one might be the same as everyone else. But it’s so true, because I have bought crypto in 2017 and back then, I was so certain of my purchases because I really believed in what some of the protocols that people were building and how useful they will be and I could see the use case, I did all my research all my homework and I felt like I was making good choices.

So I was very willing to put X amount of dollars into different alt coins of that season. And very quickly, that changed. And it’s not necessarily because the teams, they didn’t put their heart and soul into it, or they weren’t building for good. You know, in fact, one of the things I bought very early on was that bat brave token. Until today, I’m still using the brave browser. But to get that level of network effect for the token to take off it’s so different from building a good product.

Vnstr: A lot of people are using the brave browser, like everyone in my company uses the brave browser.

Chanel: Exactly. But that token, not necessarily everyone benefits from that. And the trip is so small, it’s not necessarily worth it. But when I first read about the concept, I was like, that’s so amazing, because you’re really capturing and thinking about how to tokenize the attention economy. Today, I think, the theory stands on merit, but in practice, you know, maybe it doesn’t come out, necessarily that way. So I think there’s something for someone to be very mindful of, because when you learn about something new, you get so excited.

And you start I mean, I don’t know about you, but I’m all those people who just immediately like, oh my God, in 10 years, it can be that in 20 years, it can be that I started painting a very rosy vision, and I get very caught up in that story. So while I am building that story, of course, for my brand for others, at the same time I too recognize the risk that people would have, you know, if they were to follow me on this journey, and I never want anyone to invest in anything that I’m building or anyone else in the space is building if it is something that really cut into their day to day budget because it is very risky.

So, make sure you manage your risk appetite and your optimism because, yes, the right decision to buy it could have sent you to the moon. But how many projects actually get there it’s so hard to tell. I mean, a lot of people bought the correct entities. I say that in inverted commas you go for your exam but there’s no right answer here.

Vnstr: Exactly. And to add on to your point sometimes, even if you get the right base, it’s also about how long you are able to wait until the moonshot happens. If you’re going to need that money to pay your rent, you might end up selling at a loss because you’re not able to wait enough, you know, it is crazy. So you need to use like, fucking money in order to fall for this kind of stuff.

Chanel: Yes, and if you want to take part in the space, but you don’t have that kind of liquidity, don’t like, just observe. You know, there’s so many other ways to get involved, you can get involved in another community, you have to build your product that you like, find a job in the space. You don’t have to pay to speculative elements. I think that’s why the term is affectionately degenerate, because everyone knows that there is a risk of it collapsing.

Even in a short time span some projects, I’m sure they can come out of the collapse and go on to be successful. I don’t think anyone to start off ethereum could say with 100% certainty that ethereum will be what it is now. So don’t over invest. I think one of the fears that I had during the minting period of tasty coastys was someone opening a ticket and asking me, do you think that your project would still be available to mint by the end of the week?

Because that’s when my paycheck comes in. Oh, my gosh, I was so shocked and I said any idea for standard response, which was, you know, I can’t tell I don’t know when there will still be any purchase at the end of the week. But if I knew that person, personally, I’d be like, please do not buy my thing. No one should be buying this if you already for a paycheck to come in. That is absolutely not what this is for. Even Bitcoin, you know, you can think of it as a store of value. But bitcoin is still volatile. So again, it boils down to the time horizon that you were talking about. There are so many factors to consider.

Vnstr: Exactly, it’s crazy. Anyway, thank you for coming on board today. So happy to have you actually, I think this discussion between the both of us, even if there’s not like a podcast recording is also very insightful, you know, like to just talk about all this stuff again, and just to refresh and allow us to sort of like reflect on our own journeys as well. I think it’s super nice. Where can people find you if they want to find you on Twitter or wherever?

Chanel: Chanelcoco it is the same for Twitter, Instagram. Follow me on Twitter for Web 3 and then for tastycoastys.

Vnstr: Okay. And same thing if you want to find out more you want to follow me you can follow me at Vnstr_eth. So hope you like this episode. If you’re interested to find out more, please subscribe and just share this episode if you find it useful. And if you have any thing that you want to comment on and that kind of thing you can always drop me a comment on Twitter. You can always drop Chanel comment on Twitter, and we’ll see you next week. Bye.

Our Guest: Chanel Lee

Chanel Lee is the founder of the Tasty Toastys NFT project, a a limited edition generative NFT collection. She is also an adjunct lecturer at LASALLE College of the Arts, Singapore. Prior to her entrepreneurial venture, she held Marketing and Business Development roles at a number of organisations.