JT10 | The Top 3 Concerns Of New Grad

The early years of your working life can be quite challenging because that’s when you learn the mostly unwritten rules of the game. And unlike at school or university, there is limited support to see you through, other than the networks you are able to build. I was lucky in my first job, as I joined as part of a management trainee batch so we had each other. And many of them became close friends, not just colleagues, so we had a real support group. But not everyone is so lucky. Today we have with us Grehg Yeo, founder of the “1 Foot In” podcast that’s focused on early career professionals, and, in a plot twist vs our normal format, he’s going to interview me to answer the top 3 questions new grads have about working life.

Discussion Topics: The Top 3 Concerns of New Grad

• The initial mindset of a New Grad
• Paradoxical themes. What’s that about?
• What are the pull factors to leave a company?
• Work-life balance
• Speeding to promotion

Transcript: The Top 3 Concerns of New Grad

Welcome to another episode of JobTok. So Grehg, could you please tell us a bit about yourself and how you came to understand the needs and concerns of new grads?

I’m the founder of the podcast “1 Foot In” which tells the story behind LinkedIn – often times it is very glamorous. In season 1, we interviewed 16 undergraduates and in season 2, we also interviewed people who are in mid to late management. For example, Vice President of Love, Bonito. We ask about their concerns and now, I’m here to get some answers from you.

And going by the success of your show – was it #2 in Singapore Careers recently? – a lot of people are interested in learning about how to get into these kinds of companies. That’s pretty cool. When I grow up, I want to be you!

So Grehg, what is the mindset with which grads in Singapore come into the workplace? What do they think it’s going to be like?

Most grads come in with a mindset towards a workplace or company typically under 2 ends of the spectrum:

1. As a stepping stone to somewhere better
2. As a dream company to stay

While we like to think that having a dream company perception is the best, the underlying is a mismatch of expectations. Of the graduates who I interviewed, most seemingly describe it as a dream company but ⅓ have left for different jobs now. But for those who stay, I think the 2 main themes are paradoxical because they revolve around speed to promotion or work-life balance.

Hmm. I think that’s the nature of the modern workplace. It’s exceedingly rare for someone to stay in the same company for a long time. And I think your diagnosis of expectation mismatch is absolutely correct. Even experienced professionals often find what they pictured is very different from what they actually do, so it must be a lot more of a dissonance for fresh grads.

But you mentioned a few paradoxical themes. What’s that about?

Broadly, the top 3 concerns & questions are:

1. Most candidates know that they should leave a company for more pull factors rather than push. But the question is how to determine if there are enough pull factors?
2. How do you secure speed to promotion? The underlying concern is how to manage a boss’s expectations; eg. If you want to promote, naturally we will deliver work that exceeds expectations – but telling your boss that you want to promote will lead to high expectations vs not. So there is tension in providing visibility.
3. Is work-life balance a myth? The concern is how to achieve this since great work delivered is always rewarded with more work, and what is the realistic expectation of work life balance (probably differs by industry, but shedding some light on how to determine this might be helpful)

Wow, these are meaty questions. Which one should we begin with?

Let’s take up the first concern. How do we determine if there are enough pull factors to leave a company?

Well, first I’d like to say that in reality, most people leave a company due to push factors. How would they even know of a fantastic pull factor opportunity if they aren’t looking for it? And if they are looking then obviously there is something wrong i.e., a push factor. They don’t get along with their manager, they are bored with the work, they aren’t getting promoted or paid enough, the work is too stressful, and so on. And those are mostly good reasons to leave.

Having said that, if the question is how to evaluate a new offer then there are some obvious points: compensation, growth, work culture, team, and mission or purpose.

Does the offer pay enough? And for this add up salary, expected bonus as well as stock compensation. I find people in Singapore and Asia in general don’t value stock options as much as they probably should. Cash in hand is obviously great, but stock options in the right kind of company could build wealth way faster than any amount of salary would. Just ask all the early Googlers, Facebookers, Grabbers, etc. I myself joined Uber on a low salary but with a meaningful stock compensation and that worked out well.

Is the company high growth and ideally in a growth industry? Getting into a growth company will automatically accelerate your career because, for the same effort, you will see bigger, better results faster. For example, let’s say in a slow-growth company you manage 1 person. That will become maybe 2-3 people after 2-3 years. In a growth company, you might be managing 10, 20, 50, or 100 people in 2 years. Obviously, that will put you in a better position than if you manage 2-3 people

Is the work culture and the team good? Will you be working 996 i.e. 12 hours a day 6 days a week with no recognition and hating every moment of it or will you have a more reasonable work life and spend it in the company of people you like, trust, and respect? By the way, I’d also say that most companies that are worth joining tend to have more intense work environments so don’t expect 40 hours per week.

Finally, mission and purpose. You could do good work, paid well in a well-known growth company but if you ultimately don’t believe in the mission it will be hard to keep going, especially when things are more intense and stressful. So, if you have a choice of two offers, pick the one where you believe in the mission and the product.

Right. I really liked that from the start. When people acknowledge pulling factors, they must be sparked by something that could be a push factor.

So once you acknowledge that, you can start evaluating. Because this way, it also gives you the perspective to acknowledge and rather to evaluate the company that you’re at. Whether or not it’s really worth it for you to leave.

Companies that are worth joining. And if I quote say it would have an intense environment and don’t expect 40 hours one week. Right? I think this is an excellent point for us to kind of deep dive on, because one of the questions as well is on what life balance, whether it’s a myth and from you, the way that you express it kind of sounds like it is right.

Yes, I did say not to expect 40-hour weeks. I say this for three reasons:

First, we live in a global world, and especially now that more jobs are available on a remote work basis you are competing with the best around the world. You may be smart, driven, ambitious, and well-educated, but once you open up to a global pool there are people who are all that AND are hungry to give it their all to move up the ladder to a better life.

Second, as an early career professional seeking to build credibility, you need to put in extra effort to stand out from others. By this, I don’t mean working 100-hour weeks, but in a growth company, 60-hour weeks would be pretty routine. I am not advocating for it. I’m just saying that’s what it is.

Finally, there’s the learning curve. Every skill takes a certain amount of work to master and the more hours you put into it, the faster you will learn it.

Having said that, you should not be going the other way either. I for one dislike the whole 996 concept (work 9 to 9, 6 days a week) and also never subscribed to the 7-day-a-week work style in investment banking. Depending on your workplace, you could try a few of these strategies:

1. Set a hard stop. In my last job, I used to shut my laptop at 6:30 pm every day and only open it the next morning. This forced me to prioritize my work to those things that I could complete in the limited time, which meant less time wasted on unimportant things. This is a technique worth learning early as it will benefit you for your entire life
2. If the culture does not allow for limited hours, then consider the distribution of the hours. Rather than working 12 hours a day every weekday, perhaps you could get home earlier on weekdays and do a few hours of work on weekends. Or you could enjoy your evening but put in some hours after dinner like many working parents tend to do!
3. Find ways to improve, automate or eliminate work. Especially early in your career, you tend to get dumped with all the routine boring stuff. This is mind-numbing, but also lends itself to improvement rather than the more strategic, relationship building or people-management work that you tend to do later in your career. There are so many tools like Zapier and other no-code kinds of things available that a motivated person could probably shave off at least a few hours every week.

Got it. Do not expect 40 hours. We have some of these tips that you are sharing. What about the people who are concerned about speed to promotion? Do you have any tips?

Promotions are a naturally difficult topic but there is really no reason for it to be so. Every manager knows that their people will eventually want a promotion so it’s not a surprise and definitely something worth discussing. So the question really is, how should we broach the subject? For this, I recommend a few tactics:

• First, you should know when not to discuss the promotion. Don’t broach the topic of promotion except as a general ‘how does it work’ type question till you’ve been in the role for at least a few months, ideally a year. It’s weird for a new person to ask about a promotion 3 months after they join. Also, don’t bring up promotion if you are struggling in your current role because it will come across as a lack of self-awareness. How do you promote a person who doesn’t even know whether they are doing well or badly?
• Discuss the promotion as part of a scheduled 1-on-1 so you have time for the conversation. And the first time you bring it up don’t just for a promotion. Ask what you need to do to be promotable. Something like “Hey, it’s been 2 yrs in my current role and I was wondering what I need to do to be considered for promotion in the next cycle”. This way you don’t force a premature decision from your boss, which will rarely go well since no boss can promise a promotion without going through the whole promotion cycle, however good the candidate.
• Take note of the feedback and start addressing it. Check-in with your manager monthly to confirm you are progressing as she needed to recommend your case for promotion
• And when the time gets closer, make sure you start putting in the other pieces necessary for a promotion. Proactively take and address peer feedback, get to know some of the leaders who will influence your promotion decision, deliver concrete, measurable results that your manager can quote in your promotion case, and write a great self-appraisal. I’ve actually covered these in a bit more detail in JobTok episode 8 in case anyone wants to listen further
• And if the promotion doesn’t happen, don’t get disheartened. You can use the time till the next cycle to build your case better. For example, you could try to take on a broader scope so you have more to show next time.

Right. I really liked the last point that you’ve mentioned. It’s refreshing to hear this instead of some of the hot truths laws. I mean, you have been kind of hammering bounds. I think I like it the most because I’m learning as well, when I’m interviewing mid to senior management. Promotions at a higher level, take a longer period to happen. So I can imagine from associate to senior associate to manager, it is fairly structured. It’s like one to two years. But once you hit a certain level of director VBS, precedents, and so on, the duration becomes significantly longer. And if you want to measure your success like this, the joy that you get from the next promotion is just going to get worse and worse. So, this is something that I like, the idea of not letting this happen.

You have answered all the questions that my podcast is trying to achieve. I’ll say that part of the exploration then I’m essentially doing off for my podcast, is to tell these stories simply. And the main reason why is that I’ve heard some of these points. For example, things like making a hot stop. When I start a role, I shouldn’t expect a work-life balance of the bed. I need to expect to work a bit. And then after that, maybe be an advocate for work-life balance, but simply because I’m hearing these tips.

How did someone else interpret it? It’s part of the journey, which I’m trying to pursue, where I’m trying to ask some of these people that have done this, at what point did they make this call on work-life balance? Maybe I can stop here and maybe these are some of the tips that helped me. From point A to point B.

Well Grehg, I think that’s a wrap. I had fun doing this reverse interview and also think today’s session was important because not only might new grads learn something from this conversation but equally, managers might have a better sense of what they are worrying about and find ways to address those concerns so they are happy and engaged, rather than confused and frustrated.

And if any of our listeners have questions for Grehg, please feel free to click through to our website from the episode description so you can submit them. He’s kindly offered to follow up with answers via a blog post. And for those of you who are fresh grads interested in learning how to get a foot into the hottest companies, please do check out 1 Foot In, where Grehg chats with insiders to get the low down on exactly how to do it. 1 Foot In is a top-ranked podcast in Singapore and available on Apple, Spotify, Google and everywhere else you might listen.

Grehg thanks a lot for joining us today.

And to our listeners, thanks for tuning in. We were Grehg and Amit with JobTok, See you next time.