#95 Mindfulness and ancient wisdom for turbulent modern times w/ Manish Behl

Have you ever wondered how mindfulness could be a game-changer in leadership, helping you navigate stress and make better decisions in today’s fast-paced world?

In this episode, Manish Behl, founder of the Mindfulness Summit, unveils a practical tool called POARR (Pause, Observe, Accept, Release and Refocus) that leaders can use to effectively manage stress and foster a mindful approach to leadership. We also speak about the importance of self-awareness, decision-making, and fostering positive work environments through mindfulness. Tune in now!

Discussion Topics: Mindfulness and ancient wisdom for turbulent modern times

• Introducing Manish Behl, founder of the Mindfulness Summit
• East vs. West: Is mindfulness a cultural clash or a universal key?
• Mindfulness Made Simple: Uncover its True Meaning and Impact
• Yoga & Mindfulness: Build a Solid Foundation for Lasting Wellbeing
• Values and Dharma: Values, dharma (life purpose), and intent in mindfulness
• Lead with Clarity: How mindfulness boosts your leadership skills
• Stress is a Normal Part of our Life: We’ve Labeled it as a Demon
• POARR Explained: Your Personalized Stress-Management Plan
• Ready to Transform Your Life? Start Your Mindfulness Journey Here

Transcript: Mindfulness and ancient wisdom for turbulent modern times

Yana: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Timeless Teachings. Today, our guest is Manish Behl, all the way from Mumbai in India, turning for this conversation. And Manish is a man of many things. And one of them, which is particularly interesting for us today, he is the founder of one of the largest, in Asia and in Europe.

Mindfulness Summit, India Mindfulness Summit, where speakers from all over the world fly in and they talk about mindfulness, emotional intelligence and neuroscience. And today, Manish and I’m going to dive exactly into those subjects and see how all of that, particularly connected to leadership. Maneesh, thank you so much for joining us today.

Manish: Thank you so much, Yana,

Yana: I love the topic that we are going to be discussing today because it’s pretty much about helping people to unlock their highest capabilities. So when we talk about neuroscience and emotional intelligence and mindfulness, fundamentally, we talk about mastery of the mind. And you have been in that field as a teacher for a very long time.

So I’m just curious, for someone who comes from East and then you teach around the world including West, do you see any differences in how people actually approach this particular subject in terms of Eastern based people and Western based people?

Manish: When I started working on this journey, I was heading a large organization as a CEO myself. I had a workforce of about 20, 000 people spread around the globe, starting from US to Europe, to Africa, to India, to Asia. One thing which I found, common, that we have very similar problems worldwide.

We are stressed, we are overworked, we are under sleeping, our emotions are very same, we feel anger, sadness, loneliness, and physically also these emotions translate in a very similar manner.

We more emphasize on physical health, but a subject of mental health is always a taboo to talk about. We like to talk about run, jog, do good eating, all about good health, but we somehow, we Forget to include mind into that. As if mind is not the part of our body.

But if somebody says, what are you doing for your mental health? It looks like, oh, what’s wrong with my mental health? We feel very, taboo to talk about mental health. And I found, in world, The technology is increasing. The information is increasing.

The proximity is increasing, the problems are increasing, but our mental capacities are not increasing. Our ability to take stress is not increasing. In fact, after COVID, it has dramatically gone down. Our resilience is not increasing. So I found this journey that, it’s very important for leaders to improve their capability and capacity from the mental point of view. So when I travel all around the world, I found all of us are grappling with very similar kind of problems and looking for a solution beyond physical health. And mindfulness gives that solution in some manner to deal with the situations and also equip yourself to do, To the stress and the challenges and innovation which is required in today’s time.

Yana: these days, mindfulness, it’s such a wildly and broadly used word, and people also understand different things under mindfulness. So just to make sure that we all understand each other here today, would you be giving us maybe a definition how you understand mindfulness?

Manish: So mindfulness is that awareness. Awareness that arises from paying attention at this moment. So if anything I’m paying attention and that this awareness is that I’m paying attention to this moment Mindfulness is also known as the memory, remembering to be in present moment with all the sensations which is happening inside.

Or in environment or emotionally or the feeling, I’m totally unaware of what is happening currently in this present moment. So if I don’t want it to go too broad, I think in general this is what mindfulness can be captured in a smaller definition.

Yana: And these days, like maybe just 10, 20, 30 years ago, what people call yoga became very popular and there were like yoga studios in every corner. And again, especially in the West, people started really doing yoga and becoming like very focused on that. And now, particularly since 2020, when people worldwide suffered massively from all sorts of mental health, not maybe issues necessary, but it’s not the most optimal state.

So then the mindfulness became like one of those words again, and one of those tools that, everyone is talking about. And so to me, it’s interesting to have this conversation with you because you, first of all, coming from a very ancient culture, and I love India, to me it’s one of my favorite countries, and I love how people are able to preserve.

Culture and traditions for thousands and thousands of years, And so when I have this conversation with someone like you, who comes from this kind of heritage, and also, All the amount of work that you did in the field studying and understanding yourself, mindfulness.

If we were to, dive deeper into this subject. let’s maybe start with why is it important? Like, why do we actually need to be mindful of mindfulness and learning how to integrate it into our daily life?

Manish: Great. So you touched upon, two things in this question. One is the ancient wisdom. Which India or Indian subcontinent, I would not say India alone, but Indian subcontinent provides. And second list, how it was important in this time and how this is relevant in this time and how we are the mindfulness and where we place mindfulness in that.

So one, this science of mindfulness is very ancient. It is found about. 3000 year BC,the script, the things were found where we saw that mindfulness was practiced or yoga was practiced even at Harappa and Mohenjodaro, civilizations.

One that I would like to tell you that, it was very evolved science at that particular time. India has mastered the subject on mathematics. We have the decimal, we have the zero, numeric counting.

So most of the time the India gave a lot of concepts on, on telemetry, on geometry, on algebra. And there was a very evolved science on mental health, physical health, cosmology, and various, disciplines of science.

And all those stages were basically scientists who worked relentlessly on their specific subjects. Yoga, on that matter, was one of a subject which required a level of concentration when you go deeper, work deeper on a one specific subject. West, on that matter, has still have to understand yoga beyond an exercise.

we see yoga as an exercise, or an asana, or a pranayama, we have not moved before and after that. We are still in that realm.

So yoga teaches us the discipline for concentration. And the first level of concentration is that our value systems, what we don’t steal, we don’t say bad, we don’t, we are compassionate. And then the do’s after the do’s come, there are five don’ts and five do’s come.

And then comes the asanas, because if you don’t know how to sit, how would you concentrate? So the various forms of asanas, the way you sit, are practiced. of flexibility in the body. And third is the pranayams or you can put the third as a pranayam.

Pran is that the life force within yourself, that is your swash, that’s your breath and how you manage that life force. That’s called pranayam, the discipline of your life force. And so these four becomes the first four legs for the yoga. So people usually run quickly to do either pranayam or start doing.

Vyayam or asanas, but do not understand what the do’s and don’ts. Now the purpose of mindfulness comes after the Dhyan and Dharan. That means that you have a focus and concentration. Focus is what you eliminate from what is not required in your vision, in your focusing and then what is required to put a focus.

And then Pratyahara, what you let go, what is not required for you, anger, disgust, lust. Greed, these are not required, it is unnecessary occupying a space in our real estate of our mind and body. So let go of those things and then you come to a level of Samadhi where you have Ekagra, you have one thought, one, one concentration, you focus deeper on one subject and you go deeper.

Like you said, what, let’s go deeper and that’s how the way to go deeper in the subject. So mindfulness comes at that level when you start concentrating, when you start focusing. And it starts from the very initial level when you start grounding yourself, how you ground yourself. Are you aware of your body?

Are you aware of your emotions? Are you aware of your feeling? Okay, you are sitting to meditate. Are you feeling angry? Are you feeling sad? Are you feeling anxiety? What are you feeling? Like you said to me before starting, how are you feeling now? It’s a sort of a being mindful. Oh, really? What am I feeling?

I’m feeling okay. The moment you come back to yourself, you start feeling better. Try it. even if you’re listening, and if I say, how are you feeling, Jana? And you say, okay, let me see how am I feeling. Do it for one second.

Yana: We invite our audience also to do it. Let just everyone take a deep breath

Manish: And just think, yeah, how are you feeling? Relax your shoulder,

Yana: Hmm.

Manish: and relax your jaws, and And release a deep breath, take a deep breath and gently

come back. That’s it.

Yana: Hmm. Beautiful. So how are you feeling, Manish?

Manish: Yes, I’m feeling quite good and especially after this one more breath, I feel more relaxed, more easy, less clouded, more focused. So that’s the purpose of mindfulness. It’s, I’ll give you another example, say for instance, if I’m a computer, okay. And I have to download some big file or new software. What will I do?

Yana: you have to clear some space, right? Before you download something.

Manish: yes, And most of the time we forget to clear a space, make a space for a new program. We just keep downloading and more information and this basically leads to corruption of the software within your head and body. Which corrupts systems and disallow you to think more right, more focused, you have a more clouded thought process, you have a thoughts after thoughts, you are always feel, endless chain of thoughts happening in my head because you are not clearing data and it’s corrupting your system.

Yana: So it’s important, yeah, for the space and also when I’m listening to you, Manish, I’m just realizing actually how interconnected mindfulness and yoga are. And when I look around in the world, I feel that sometimes people forget about that. Just like with everything else, everyone tries to bypass the foundation and move into, whatever their popular subject is today.

And because mindfulness is a popular subject, so people go, Okay, so what do I need to do? What exercise? Give me some mindfulness tools. But actually, as I’m listening to you, like one of my realizations and reminded to myself that it does start with yoga. And if you really want to go deep into your mindfulness practice, you need to learn all those basic, about what you should be doing, what you shouldn’t be doing.

Check your mind, check your body. Probably good to learn some at least basic asanas and body and yoga postures, as you said, so that you can actually sit and your, your lower back is not hurting. Your shoulders are not hurting. Your hips are not hurting. And then just how you said it. And also when you train through pranayama, which is right, one of the yogic breathings where you train yourself to go in this concentration state.

So if people try to bypass that, then I think mindfulness can become very difficult.

So thank you for bringing this to our attention and just reminding everyone pretty much the importance of the traditional yoga practice. physical, mental, and emotional before you move into the mindfulness, because mindfulness then becomes like a higher state, right?

So once you engage your mind, it’s a higher state.

Manish: Yes. yeah, that’s very important.

Yana: when we talk about values, some values, Very universal and probably in any culture, there are some basic values like don’t kill, don’t steal, try not to lie. So some values are basic and international and some values are very personal.

So when we say that, have a clear value system, these days I also find that the moral compass for people. has a bit more room to move rather than maybe how it used to be a few generations ago. So there’s a bit more sort of space between what is right, what is wrong, what is in between.

And so how do we, how do we know which are good values for us?

Manish: I’m not here to define values for people. People have their own value system. We are, all of us are educated and understand what is right and wrong. Whatever your values, your heart says this is right. Okay, follow that.

Moral values are not only to be written, what is my mission and vision of organization, it’s not to write on our big boards outside the organization or on the entrance, it is to follow.

And when you really start following, just stick to that value. If compassion is your value, if forgiveness is your value, or honesty is your value, or helping other is your value, whatever your value is, what is your dharma? What is you are meant to be in this world for?

If I’m a teacher, my dharma is to teach and impart education. What I feel, I have it with me and I share with others. That’s my dharma.

Now, what other person do with that knowledge? It’s his or her dharma, what she do. So that’s the value with that. There has to be intent. What is my intent to, when I, and when I go to my work, when I come to my family, when I go to society, what’s my intent? What’s my broad purpose in life? Okay, I’m just here, like any other animal.

Just eat, live, eat and procreate. That’s it. Look for more comfortable house or comfortable car or attain more pleasures. Is that the only purpose I’m here with? Or there’s some larger goal in a life that we would like to follow. Because those becomes your moral compass to progress in life. Mindfulness cannot stick to you if you have a very less, very shaky ground.

Yana: I love how you’re describing that and how you also weaved this concept of dharma and what is your dharma and how it links with the value is it’s actually a beautiful way of saying that and I think it’s, people like all over the world because Dharma also now became a very international world.

it used to be more like it’s a Sanskrit. It used to be more right from India. But now everyone uses this word like what is your dharma? And I actually find it’s great to ask this question yourself regularly.

And when we talk about mindfulness and we talk about Dharma, we talk about, the foundation, we talk about understanding ourselves. So if we bring leadership into this and leadership could be, from where I’m coming from, every human being is a leader to one way or another.

it all starts with the self leadership, and you need to learn how to lead yourself through your life. So that’s number one. And once you figure that out, Then you start expanding, right? Maybe you are a leader to your children. Maybe you’re mutually leading with your partner. It’s like core leadership when you’re in the relationship.

So maybe you have a company and you have, partners, investors and employees, and then you become more like a business leader or political leaders or whatever we understand and the leadership. So it’s fundamentally. A person that leads by example, right? So it means that the person who is leading needs to have certain capacity within themselves so that others can follow.

And I’m just curious how mindfulness can help a human being to become a better leader.

Manish: Yes, I headed large organizations for about 20 years at a very senior level. And I feel the mindfulness is a very powerful tool, I would say extremely powerful tool. And it plays a very significant role, both in decision making and people management. It helps us to be more aware, more focused, more creative, ethical about our choices and actions.

Mindfulness reduces the level of stress, anxiety, and emotional reactivity and which can cloud our judgment and also impair our performance. I’ll give you an example of my experience. When I identified mindfulness and I started,a very early part of my life. Now, when I was working and I re started working back on mindfulness, I feel like that it identifies my decisions.

It helps me to take a right decisions, I’m more attentive about the present situation, the signs, the signals that indicate a problem or an opportunity. Most of the time we are so busy in our rut that we are, we forget to read those signs and signals which indicates a problem or also an opportunity.

For instance, I give you an example, like I was leading a large team and I noticed that one of the team members was struggling with his tasks and he seemed very unhappy. there’s a one chance would be that I would have ignored the issue that maybe he’s going with through that he’s doesn’t have a capacity, capability, I would have a narrative.

Instead of that, I decided to have a conversation with him and find out that what’s going on. I learned that he was going through some personal challenge and he felt overwhelmed at the work, especially because the workload we were launching a completely a new project. So I understood his problem and I was able to offer him a support and some flexibility and reassign some of his tasks to the other team members and You would surprise Jana that you know So many members came who are willing to help him in that situation and I asked that this is a problem I would like to take some workload from him and I think all of my team members said sir We were ready to do that Do you think what happened in the team, it improved the well being, it improved the productivity and it also improved the team morale and cohesiveness among the team members.

And this is one of the example I just gave. Second example is that mindfulness help us to be more creative in problem solving, allowing us to access our different angle and perspective and generate novel ideas. And avoid our cognitive biases.

you know, when I’m working as a consultant for a client, and he wanted to launch a new product in a very competitive market. And that is the time I thought, let me think that he’s trying to do something who others have done. Can we do something different?

We understood customer needs. So you know, gave them a mindfulness technique.

And allow me to involve evaluating and selecting ideas rather than going with the biases that you know, I have 20 years of experience, he has so many of years of product, why should I change my product? It is well accepted. We both started thinking very differently and we are able to, penetrate the information which competitors were not looking at, which they feel contradicting.

a long time back when I was studying, there were two students who were sent to, to one of a very, very poor country.

And that time they were struggling. There was basically Somalia and they wanted to sell, the, the beach sleepers, the beach chapels, the

Yana: huh,

Manish: beach flip flops. And in India, everybody wears flip flops in India called bathroom slippers or something new kind of names they give.

So there was, so one guy went and I said, there is no market for it because nobody wears it. And the other came back and said, tremendous market because nobody wears it.

Yana: perception,

Manish: yes,

now you are going with preconception. You ignore information. And mindfulness allows you to then think differently, allow, be present, live with that moment, understand things. this could have a very different impact in your decision making.

Yana: When you were just sharing, I thought to myself with a smile, that’s probably what Steve Jobs was thinking when he invented iPhone. When people were telling him, no one going to use it because no one is using it. And that’s probably what he thought. Great opportunity. So everyone is going to be using it.

And look what happened. Just one of the examples. When we talk about, mindfulness. And, people in leadership position. I think also another topic that comes up together with that is stress, particularly stress management.

So there is this constant pressure to evolve, to do something, to become better and is stressful. And I’m just wondering how mindfulness can help with that. And perhaps you could also give us some tools that our listeners could practice themselves that will help them to reduce stress in their life.

Manish: Yes. we sometime, get into a vicious circle of stress.

Stress is a normal part of our life. We have created stress as a demon. Now imagine Yana if you are driving on a road and you have to overtake a car which is driving slow,

what you will do basically for that particular moment, you rely that you have to go faster than the car which is driving

Yana: road. you push a pedal on the gas. And you’re a little more attentive at that particular time, you are on the wheel, you are not relaxed, you are not putting a makeup on your face or not changing something or not listening to the phone, you just be attentive at that particular time, you shift your gear or push a pedal on the gas and you take, you overtake that vehicle and once you are in a safe distance, then you reduce your speed.

Manish: that particular moment when you were overtaking that, that car. A slight amount of stress.

But now, if you do not slow down after you’re taking that jump from that car or you’re overtaking a car and you continue with that same speed, the stress has not gone down. Now, you are continuing at that speed constantly, car after car and car after car and car after car. You are not taking a moment.

Yana: That’s a great example, Vanesh. I think it’s very relatable for people because, most people drive cars. And I feel that way you’re heading, because this is how most people live their lives. And we need to learn when to speed up and when to slow down. And mindfulness right here would be then the tool.

Manish: yes, so mindfulness allows you that once you have taken a stressful action, yes, it’s a part of the growing up, you need to progress. Mindfulness doesn’t say that, you stop everything in the world and go to Himalayas and then meditate. No, it’s living in this world with this chaos and this change and chaos is because there’s a constantly changing.

Okay, and then develop those qualities to have stress and have a positive stress, a friendly stress, okay. Enjoy that adrenaline rush for that particular moment, but slow down after that. So most of us forget to slow down. We start running and we burn out.

Yana: I love how you explain very complex things in a very simple way with highly engaging stories. It’s actually beautiful to listen to. And, I would probably assume that their ability to, know when to speed up and when to slow down also comes from mindfulness practice because it’s about awareness.

It’s about self awareness. Most people, it’s like an autopilot. They wouldn’t even notice whether they’re speeding up or slowing down. It is just like part of their reactive nature. And what you were sharing earlier with us where mindfulness helps to. reduce reactivity and become more in control of your reactions and your responses and how you want to interact with people and with life.

Manish: yes, let me expand the example which I gave you. If you are so much rush as a leader to reach some place, okay, quickly and faster than others, so probably you would forget to enjoy the scenery around you. You forget to see the beautiful snow capped mountains or a lush green jungle or Just the way life is going by.

You just forget and you are in that, constant blinded with your focus, which we call narrow mindedness. Okay. You are narrowly, your brain is narrow down on this thing and anybody comes and you say, Oh, you keep shouting on that, Oh stupid, how are you driving? you don’t know how to drive and you’re driving like that constantly.

You’re yelling at the reactive on your behavior.

the data has shown most of the accidents have happened when people are driving rash. Accident doesn’t happen when people are driving slower. Yes, if you are driving in a fast lane on a slower car, definitely you can be a cause of action. Then you need to take a little side, take your slow moment and then come back to the fast lane.

I’m not saying that, but most of the time our accidents happen when We are not aware of environment. We are not following the rules and regulations, Yamas and Niyamas of our life. We are not following to wait, when to slow down. We are not understanding compassion. We are not understanding the plight of people who are around us.

Yana: This is beautiful. I, know, quite a few, experts who specialize exclusively in leadership, all kinds of leadership. Again, it’s another very popular topic these days. And actually, ability to listen. Everyone says it’s one of the key qualities of a really good leader. So that you actually know how to listen to people.

We,

Manish: has a very important while you are speaking, but you are also listening, not just to respond back, but to just listen.

Yana: Yes, that’s the other one. Exactly. Not to respond back, but to listen beautifully, Manish.most of the people who are listening to us probably would be living in a busy urban towns and they would have jobs and maybe family and other things to do.

So we are trying to, we’re trying to give this timeless wisdom and timeless tools for more in a modern society. So we have to also obey the rules and the attention spam is only so much these days. So be mindful of that. And so that’s why as we’re going to be soon coming through with the end of the conversation, I’m just curious, let’s give people some tools.

We talked so much about mindfulness today and to explain what it is, right? So just some tools that will help them to deal with stress, that will help them to become better listeners and will help them to raise their self awareness. So what would you recommend?

Manish: when you said stress, let me give, because stress is a point what we are discussing, and I have devised a tool. After years of my research on mindfulness, I have mastered one tool, which I created after listening to all the people and doing my own practice, and my tool is known as PUA. Like a roar, it’s a PUA.

POAR

Yana: Pour. Okay.

Manish: O A R R. Like a roll, this is POAR. So P on POAR stands for PAUSE. PAUSE.

Yana: Pause.

Manish: The first step is to take a pause. Okay. Take a deep breath. This helps you to calm down and create some space between you and your emotions. So try to do it like sit, pause and take a deep breath.

And try to create a space between you and your emotion. You are not your emotion, you are not your anger, you are not your anxiety. So there’s a great slightly space between you and your emotion. Next is to observe, okay? And now observe your emotion with a little more curiosity and openness. As you created a space, okay, now you observe this emotion.

With a little more curiosity. What’s happening to me? Why am I feeling this way? A little more open, not judging yourself. You can ask yourself. What am I feeling? Like we ask others. How are you feeling? Ask yourself. What am I feeling? How do my body feel now? Where do I my body is? What has triggered this emotion into me?

Any thoughts associated with it? And then you can label your emotion also, this is anger, this is anxiety, this is this and you can’t label it, you can just give it a new name like anything. And then third step is to accept, okay, accept this emotion, okay, yes, I’m angry. And do not judge it or criticize it, no, you always do that, you’re always angry, just acknowledge.

Feel normal the way it is. It’s normal to get angry. It’s normal to get anxiety. Just remind yourself This emotion is not permanent. It’s not fixed and it will change it will pass eventually And when you give this thought to yourself then come to the third fourth step of mine called release The fourth step is release this emotion without acting as you know pushing it away or you know suppressing it Okay, just breathe in slowly.

Let go of any tension, resistance. Okay, you can also use a mantra which I usually go, I let go of you. I am free. I am at peace. Okay, and when you do the last step, it’s done. Then, once you’ve released it, now final step is to re focus our attention on something more constructive and beneficial. Now let go of it, what is it for me now?

What can be an activity that can bring joy or satisfaction? Probably, now it’s I’m open to read some book or talk to a friend, maybe listen to a music. And then last is to gratitude. yourself and then thank you, thank yourself. This way you can actually deal with a very stressful situation in a simple manner.

Yana: Thank you so much, Manish. That was a wonderful conversation today. And I’m sure that everyone who has been with us and listening to us will learn a lot. And I always say when. People like you who just share a lot of beautiful insights throughout the conversation. I do encourage our audience to re listen again, because sometimes when we listen for the first time, not everything registers in our mind and in our brain.

So it’s a good practice to re listen second time or third time, and you will be surprised how many new nuances you’re actually going to hear when you do that. And that was Manish Pahal with us from India today. And I just want to say that I appreciate each and every one of you who is just supporting the show and who is tuning in and watching each episode.

Thank you for being. being on this journey with us. And we always appreciate if you can share the episodes with friends, leave a comment, subscribe, and rate us on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for joining us today, Manish, and to everyone else, I’m going to see you next time.

Our Guest: Manish Behl

Manish Behl is the founder of a Mindfulness and Emotional Intelligence based training institute called Beyond Mind. He is also the founder of Asia’s Largest and first-ever Emotional Intelligence and Mindfulness Summit, Mindfulness India Summit. He is working with organisations, academicians, institutes and schools and helping them develop.