Startups vs Big Tech: Leadership, work styles and growth stages

Join us on the Growth Leaders Podcast as we embark on a journey with Haji Munshi, Group CEO of Cloud Kinetics. From his adventurous spirit to building a thriving private equity-backed platform, Haji shares invaluable insights. Dive into lessons drawn from big tech – envisioning audacious goals, cultivating trust, and communication prowess, all while uncovering the unlearning required when transitioning from a tech giant to an entrepreneurial venture. Tune in for a masterclass in scaling, culture crafting, and competing with billion-dollar giants!

Discussion Topics: Startups vs Big Tech

• About Haji Munshi, CEO of Cloud Kinetics
• Three learnings from Big Tech that apply to startups
• Things to unlearn from Big Tech for a startup
• How a startup can compete with billion-dollar companies
• 3 key things you build at each growth stage from 0 to 100M+
• 3 common traits of successful growth leaders
• How to set high standards without burning people out
• How to give people autonomy
• How leaders become leaders
• Should you work at an established company or startup?

Transcript: Startups vs Big Tech

Alison Eyring: Hey, Haji, it’s great to have you here on the Growth Leaders Podcast.

Haji Munshi: Delighted to be here Alison.

Alison Eyring: Before I start to interview you, could you just tell me what is the meaning of your name? Haji.

Haji Munshi: Haji is more a title given to folks who have gone for, something called the Hajj, which is, a pilgrimage, to Mecca.

I inherited this name because my name Sally Mohammed, which is my formal first name, was my great-grandfather’s name, and many years ago, I went for a pilgrimage and during those days, there, there was, you had to go on a ship.

It was a six-month expedition. It involved an enormous amount of hardship. And when people came back, they were given the name Haji. And since I got his name and I was born, people also started calling me Haji because that’s what he was called. That’s how I inherited the name.

I have subsequently actually gone on pilgrimage and earned the name. But yeah, that’s how the name came about.

Alison Eyring: I love that. And it’s so fitting for you because you are a man of adventure. Tell us a little bit about the organisation where you are now leading.

Haji Munshi: I’m the Group CEO of a company called Cloud Kinetics. It’s a private equity, rollup company that, helps put together and buys out cloud company, and cloud services companies, which are focused on providing managed services and professional services to large enterprises that want to know how to make the best use of public cloud, such as AWS, Google Cloud, Microsoft Azure, and so on.

Alison Eyring: It’s quite an entrepreneurial venture for you as well because you had been in large companies and then you actually set up a cloud ventures firm. Isn’t that correct?

Haji Munshi: Yes, it is a bit of an out, out of ordinary, experience. I have indeed been at a large company, was president of Southeast Asia for Cisco and apac, MD for Google Cloud, and in a variety of leadership roles at Dell.

This is a little bit out of the ordinary. It’s a smaller company. It’s not a startup, but it’s a platform where we actually buy mid-size companies and then we bring them together. So that we can deliver value to our customers and our shareholders. And being private equity backed in general, it’s not a very common thing in Asia,

Three learnings from Big Tech that apply to startups

Alison Eyring: So what did you learn in the world of big tech that you think has really helped you to start up this business and get it going?

Haji Munshi: Having had a chance to work at, for example, Google Cloud, one of the things that I certainly learned about the Google culture was, it was, around BHAG right? Big, hairy, audacious goals and thinking 10x and really creating a positive culture to enable the team to do their best.

Naturally, when you’re in a company like mine where we’re, we are relatively smaller than Google for sure. How do we set ourselves a golden objective that can really inspire the organisation? Another example is really with Cisco, my experience at Cisco.

Very customer-centric company. Really focused on delivering thought leadership, to key decision-makers and how do you position what you have in a language that business stakeholders can understand, even though it’s a highly technical product, something that I think Cisco does fantastically well.

And then early on in my career, actually, I was leading a corporate strategy and a strategic marketing function at a company called Ciena which was a relatively small company at the time and we ended up acquiring four companies. That all came together and then, Ciena is now actually a publicly traded company, one number, one leader, in optical networking.

And if you piece all of those things together, there’s something of value that I could pick up from each one of those experiences that can help me.

Alison Eyring: Yeah, for sure. Learning how to buy companies, learning how to shape a great culture, and learning how to vary the way you communicate. Those are great lessons.

Things to unlearn from Big Tech for a startup

Alison Eyring: Was there anything you had to unlearn that you got in big tech and into this new environment?

Haji Munshi: It’s certainly a big piece of humble pie. Your, my business card doesn’t open doors anymore, or I’m from Cisco, or I’m from Google, it’s a decent brand name Cloud Kinetics, but it’s certainly not comparable to a big tech company. So, Certainly, the need to be humble, building really deep, Meaningful relationships with people, whether it’s within the company or with key stakeholders outside of the company. It’s certainly a big learning, and, and creating a common culture so people can actually then be totally aligned in the way forward, I think.

Being in a large company is almost taken for granted. Culture is your, you have to adapt when you’re trying to build something. It’s an exercise to actually define what the culture should be, and that then establishes the norms for how the organisation should operate.

Alison Eyring: I guess that’s really the hallmark of an entrepreneur is like the buck stops here.

Like you’ve shaped the culture. So everything, you really gotta roll up your sleeves and be, take ownership for so much that you don’t have to do in a big company.

How a startup can compete with billion-dollar companies

Alison Eyring: So if I think about your time at Cisco, you were leading a business that had more than a billion dollars in revenue, right?

This was a very large business. So how is it different when you manage a business with that kind of revenue, with the very beginnings of a new company where revenue is very early, or it’s you’re proving that you can generate revenue? What’s different as the leader of the organisation?

Haji Munshi: Yeah, certainly there’s a lot to be learned from large companies about how you scale up businesses. And while there was a billion dollars worth of business at Cisco’s also a serial acquirer. And we had to acquire two companies every month. And, in Southeast Asia, which was the region I was part of or leading, we had to scale up relatively smaller businesses and make them bigger.

So there is some level of commonality there. Having said that, of course, the install base of customers is not there.

We are already tens of millions of dollars in Southeast Asia and, we’ve got 400 people now across the company, but we still have a lot of work to do in terms of, getting to a stronger installed base of clients. So we have roughly about 300 clients now in the region. But, for us to be able to get to our growth aspirations, we probably need to be about five or 10x of that. And, every day is about how you build trust and how you build that engagement with newer and newer clients.

Alison Eyring: So what’s the secret? cause that’s a huge issue, right? When you have that really nice brand name behind you, people say, oh yeah, I know who you are, I trust you. What have you found is the key to building trust and building that new base of customers?

Haji Munshi: I think ultimately it comes down to focus.

In a customer meeting yesterday and they asked me exactly this question, why Cloud kinetics? And, my response is really simple. We are specialists. We don’t do everything. We don’t claim to be all things to all people, but what we do really well.

Most companies are looking to be, in the public cloud and making the best use of it. And, frankly, with the amount of innovation and new products that the big cloud players like, Amazon are introducing, being a specialist and saying that we do that really well, actually allows us to be able to win credibility and trust.

Of course, there’s a lot of reference ability. We’ve got some very large enterprise clients in the banking sector. We’ve got big travel companies. We’ve got airlines as clients, and you have the ability to use that. Those references also allow us to be able to win some credibility and trust with newer clients.

Alison Eyring: I think that’s a great insight because early on when you get started, there’s a pull to just be everything. Like you wanna be pleasing, you wanna be able to satisfy. So it seems almost counterintuitive to say no, don’t do that. Really focus. But I think that’s great advice for people.

3 key things you build at each growth stage from 0 to 100M+

Alison Eyring: So what’s different in the different context, like in your career, you manage businesses with a hundred million in revenue and a billion, like, how’s it different in those ranges?

Or are there differences?

Haji Munshi: I’d say the biggest inflection points are going from zero to one, zero to 1 million. I have an enormous respect for founders and candidly, it takes a very unique individual human being to be able to get a business from zero to 1 million.

Then of course it’s, it becomes a little bit easier to take a business from one to 10. And, surely that’s really about building a very clear strategy and finding the right type of investors and building an organisation that has agility, and, the level of commitment that you need to be able to get to that level of growth.

And then, of course, from 10 to a hundred, it’s really about building. The right systems, the right processes, and the kind of perhaps a multi-layer organisation and seeing how you can build repeatability. And then I would say from the hundred onwards.

It’s really about more strategic things. How do you find the right strategic partner? Which countries do you want to enter? And, how do you build, the right ecosystem so that you can differentiate relative to your competitors? Each one of those requires a relatively different skill set and it’s also important for people who are in this, on this kind of growth journey to know what are their shortcomings.

To be able to compliment themselves, to be able to bring those right people on board and the right teams on board so that they can adapt themselves to those different revenue milestones.

I love your description of the different inflection points, Haji and you said that there are some differences at different stages.

3 common traits of successful growth leaders

Alison Eyring: What do you think is the most common capability that leaders need, say, across the different inflection points of business growth?

Haji Munshi: I think there are two or three things that, I’ve seen, perhaps are relevant in each one of those inflection points. Certainly, the ability to build and influence a team, because you can’t do it yourself. And naturally, you need to be able to attract like-minded people who have a similar sense of the mission and vision of the company.

That holds true across the entire lifecycle. I think the desire and bias for action is clearly something that holds through all aspects of that. And I do think, a sense of, where the strategic value can be created.

I think in every space that we play in, there is competition. There’s a need to be differentiated. There’s a need to be able to offer that, offer some level of value to clients that you’ve selected, that would see you better than an incumbent. And so having a sense of strategic thinking and aligning activities to be able to build on that strategic advantage is also equally important.

I think the first two are common in large companies or small companies. But the last one is a must in a small company

Alison Eyring: for sure. Yeah. You definitely don’t have the armies of people supporting you, so you’ve gotta really get in there and just drive it yourself.

How to set high standards without burning people out

Alison Eyring: I wanna ask you a little bit about a specific challenge that I think all growth leaders face, and it’s one where, As you’re leading growth in the business, you really have to set high expectations and high standards, and you really have to push right? But at the same time, you don’t wanna burn people out, right?

Because then you lose ’em, they get demoralised. How do you find that balance?

Haji Munshi: I’d like to say, Alison, this is not something I’ve fully figured out yet. It’s a consistent amount of feedback that’s been provided over the last, 10, 15, 20 years. I do bring a very high level of intensity, in everything that I do.

That’s, Got me successful to this point because that drives my passion. No question about that. Over time, as I’ve had kids and I’ve matured, naturally.

It’s also about giving people enough space, giving them enough recognition, giving them enough autonomy, and giving team members authority. Those play a pretty important role to be able to also find the right balance. I can’t say that I will not be intense. I will remain intense. At least in the foreseeable future.

But how do you balance that with creating and enabling an environment for people to feel they’re contributing to something meaningful? They’re part of something, out of the ordinary where they have the ability to have an influence, where they have the ability to shape the future. I think those things are quite important.

How to give people autonomy

Haji Munshi: I’m curious. If you ever had an experience, where you learned this lesson about creating, giving people space, ’cause that’s so hard to do and you’re talking about giving people autonomy and authority and that’s awesome. So what’s your secret?

It starts with actually finding the right people that become key members of the team that you, one, are leading. finding the ability to bring a team together that’s complementary to your skillset and that can add actually to the dialogue that’s happening within the leadership team and creating the openness of dialogue so people can bring different ideas and different styles to good use within the context of that team It’s something that became quite clear to me as I, as I’d made the transitions from Dell to Cisco and from Cisco to Google. I could see that, the more diverse a team that I built, the more it was able to create space and room for the team to be able to flourish and do well as a unit than each individual on its own.

Alison Eyring: Wasn’t it more difficult?

Haji Munshi: It does require self-awareness. For example, when I hire somebody new, the first thing I say is, these are all the things that are bad about me. These are things that, I wish you knew about me because you probably know in six months’ time, this is how I am.

Then, it sets up a good foundation for conversation to say, I wonder how you could contribute in a complimentary nature to this team.

The reason why you’re here is because you’re not the same as me, and I would love it if you could help us help the team in this way. And I think those conversations, while somewhat uncomfortable, Actually do inculcate trust within that team. And so I found that to be quite valuable.

Alison Eyring: I remember hearing an expert on trust once and somebody said, what’s the key behaviour that you’ll observe in leaders that are trusted? And they said that people show their vulnerabilities. And I’ve always thought that was great. So you’re like giving them this realistic job preview about what it’s like to work with you, but also opening the door for them to fill the gaps.

So I think that’s really wonderful.

How leaders become leaders

Alison Eyring: Haji. When you look back on your career across all the big companies and now in your own business that you’re growing, what would be your happiest moment? And why was this so happy?

Haji Munshi: A very difficult question, Alison. Because, I’ve had fantastic experiences across pretty much every company that I’ve worked for, and the first company that I worked for, which was Hughes Network Systems, was my first job and I was given the role of looking after, I would say a relatively ignored region, which was the English speaking Africa region.

It was just two of us looking after 24 countries, and I was based outta Washington, DC and I remember that there was just an enormous amount of learning. About how to engage with customers and how to design satellite networks and how to build business plans. And it was a really wide-scope job and there was an enormous sense of ownership, even though it was part of a large company because it was just two people and we had to do everything.

It was a tough job, but a very meaningful experience for me. And in Dell, it’s very common for people to rotate roles in 18 months, and I was fortunate that I’ve done so. I’ve done sales roles, marketing roles, planning roles, product roles, regional roles, and country roles, and each one of them has helped me develop an aspect of my experience to prepare me for something bigger and better.

I can’t pinpoint something, but the only common trait is the ability to be able to do something different and stretch and not know all the answers

Alison Eyring: And that what you’re saying is just so consistent with all the research about how leaders become leaders and grow.

It’s not in a classroom. It’s about facing a huge challenge, not so much challenge that it undoes ’em, but facing challenges and it. What I love about listening to you is just that, I just hear such an attitude about learning. And, taking joy in that and not having to have all the answers. I feel like that’s such an important part of business growth and also of growth from an individual perspective.

Should you work at an established company or startup?

Alison Eyring: And so I’m gonna ask you this one last question, what’s one piece of advice that you would give people early in their career about whether they should work in an established company or a startup?

Haji Munshi: That’s an interesting question.

I would have a, maybe inclination for younger people to actually get involved in smaller companies initially because, the experience of having to do multiple jobs wearing multiple hats with fewer resources and fewer established processes and systems, actually is an invaluable experience. Many of the large companies, while they provide fantastic experiences, many of those systems, processes, and cultures are already pretty established, and the guardrails are already in place.

So if one is thinking about being a growth leader I would certainly encourage younger people to go down the path of a smaller company first. And, that experience will, in my mind, build a much more rounded individual that could be ready for, of course, in a company, in a larger company at some point in the future, but also in a smaller company.

Alison Eyring: That’s such great advice. It’s about really finding a place that’s gonna give you the challenge that’s gonna help. Push. Start your growth. That’s great. Exactly. Haji, I’ve just loved having this conversation with you. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Haji Munshi: Thank you, Alison.

Our Guest: Haji Munshi

Haji Munshi is the Group CEO of Cloud Kinetics, one of the largest Cloud Managed Service Providers (MSP) in SE Asia and India, focused on transforming customers’ business to realise the power of the cloud in everything that they do. Haji partnered with I Squared Capital, a US PE/Infrastructure fund to establish an Asia-focused Cloud MSP investment platform to execute a ‘roll-up’ strategy in this industry segment, culminating in the concurrent buy-out & merger of Cloud Kinetics and InfoFabrica, both well-established Cloud MSPs with partnerships with AWS, Microsoft Azure, Google Cloud, IBM Cloud, Oracle Cloud and others. Cloud Kinetics will continue to grow its Cloud MSP business organically and via acquisitions.

Haji was previously with Google Cloud as their Managing Director, Corporate APAC, as well as ASEAN President ASEAN for Cisco Systems & HPE. He has been a member of the Young Presidents Organization for 5+ years.