S1E6 | Truths About Being A Female Leader In The Trillion Dollar Climate Tech Market | Natalia Rialucky, Fairatmos

What are the hard truths about building a climate tech market in a country and region where the awareness, tech and regulations are yet to mature? And how do you make massive change happen while also handling the demands of being a new mother? Hear from Ria and Puiyen as they discuss the challenges, pitfalls and the immense impact of category creation in Climate Tech.

Discussion Topics: Truths About Being a Female Leader in the Trillion Dollar Climate Tech Market

• About FairAtmos
• First impressions between Vertex and FairAtmos
• Vertex’ investment thesis for FairAtmos
• State of Carbon markets in SEA
• How FairAtmos is trying to be an early mover in SEA Climate Tech
• Hard Truths about category creation in Climate tech
• Impact beyond climate
• It’s not just about money
• Hard truths about being a mom investor and entrepreneur
• Vertex’ views on climate tech investments
• FairAtmos business model
• Advice for female founders
• How their childhood shaped them

Transcript: Truths About Being a Female Leader in the Trillion Dollar Climate Tech Market

Elise Tan: Hi, I’m Elise Tan, and I’m your host for this episode of Hard Truths by Vertex Podcast. Today, I’m in the company of two thought leaders in the area of Climate Tech. I’m pleased to have Natalia Rialucky, founder of Fairatmos, as well as my colleague and partner investment Puiyan Leung. Puiyan Leung also led the round for Fairatmos. Hi, Ria, Hi, Puiyan.

Natalia Rialucky: Hi, Elise. How are you? Hi Puiyan.

Elise Tan: Yeah, thanks for taking the time for this show. So we are also celebrating International Women’s Day with this podcast. We are going to have a three-way conversation, talking about climate, life, family, and work. So first of all, let me introduce Ria. So, as I mentioned, Ria founded Fairatmos. She brings with her more than 10 years of experience leading projects in the area of sustainability across agriculture and climate. You must know a lot about climate.

Natalia Rialucky: Thanks Elise, I’m learning every day. And I guess, learning with Puiyan makes it much more fun. I’m also a mom of two, I mean, three if you count my husband too as well, and four with the startup. So I’m very privileged with all the love that I get.

Elise Tan: Puiyan and I are mothers as well. So I have a young daughter, and then for Puiyan, she has two. Ria, you know why don’t you tell us more about Fairatmos.

Natalia Rialucky: Actually, maybe let’s go from the start. It was two years ago when my job was onboarding farmers to use a digital platform when most of the farmers were really complaining about the failure in crop harvest because of weather extremities. When it was supposed to rain, it didn’t rain, when it wasn’t supposed to rain, it rained really hard.

They don’t say it. But it’s apparent to me that it’s really, really the impact of climate change. And they’re very vulnerable, they don’t have any resources to adapt to mitigate or prevent the future. And again, because it was early 2021, all the talks about climate funds, the world is putting more than 600 billion to really combat and do climate action, I felt like there’s a big discrepancy, where all of these resources I felt did not really got received to the ground, to the communities and the smallholders who really need to adapt and help mitigate, because to be honest with you, agriculture also produce a lot of greenhouse gases that cause climate change in the first place as well.

So these kinds of discrepancies really create a big question for me, How can we bridge this? And what is also the role of technology? Because I really enjoy my experience in running startups and running technology companies, we have gone so far with what we can do with technology. So that’s the entire thesis of Fairatmos, how do you use technology to make a market a climate carbon market that is inclusive for everyone? So together with Puiyan and I actually a lot of the ideation that we do to build Fairatmos really comes from talking to a lot of people, a lot of climate experts as well at the space.

Basically, we believe that Fairatmos plays the best role in becoming the carbon credit marketplace in order to connect communities smallholders, and asset owners in order to create carbon-absorbing projects connected to companies who would like to offset and finance such projects.

We have almost a year running now with around 20 people, we have worked with over 60 organisations across Indonesia foundations, NGOs, provincial governments, communities, and companies, who have more than 1.3 million hectares of Forestry and lands, including mangroves in Indonesia, we’re very proud that our platform really gets a lot of traction because it seems like a lot of people want to get involved.

So a lot of our technology really helped to speed up the certification, and the verification of carbon projects. The intention is for us to grow much faster, and much bigger, together with Vertex and all of our partners as well.

Elise Tan: This is definitely very exciting. And this is our very first Climate Tech investment. We are really excited to see how we can be part of the solution towards achieving net zero. So I’m going to step back and ask both of you how collaboration and all that comes about.

Puritan Leung: Actually, we were already known entities because Ria used to work with one of our portfolio companies. But I think I didn’t have the privilege of meeting her in person then. My Indonesia base colleague Kush pings me when I was in the midst of my maternity leave, and said, hey Ria is starting something new and it’s going to be in the direction of climate. Actually, there was no agenda because at that time, I think you were maybe still just at the very early stage of your company formation, with not much traction, and maybe not even a business idea.

So I was always open to conversation. So, we decided to sort of figure out a meeting. And it’s just to get to know each other in the space because this space is young, this space is developing. I think we, as an ecosystem, can do with more mutual support for each other because everyone is still learning at the same time.

Elise Tan: Tell me more about what happened the first time when both of you met.

Natalia Rialucky: I think the exciting part was not the first time when we met. But basically, I can share a little bit about why I really want to work with Puiyan. So as how fundraising process goes, you basically meet different partners. I was actually nine months pregnant when I was fundraising, as well. And when I was talking to Puiyan, she also had a baby. So I guess we sort of understood each other. That’s why we really want to support each other as well.

Elise Tan: I think that’s the cool thing about Vertex ventures, we have quite a high proportion of investors who are female. And we realise female founders can be successful. And this means that we need to surround ourselves with a support network.

Puiyan Leung: I think maybe just to add on, talking about the first impression is that when I was about to deliver, I was already kind of not very level-headed. But when I look at Ria, she was level-headed as a founder and a leader. As investors, it was our job to try to stress tests and ask questions in different directions.

What are your different strategies when you’re faced with different directions, especially when the whole space is still so fluid from a regulatory standpoint, from a market demand standpoint, I must say that we don’t know what we don’t know, but even that point, I could see that Ria was still very level headed in a way she was going to problem solve.

So it was really impressive. I mean, obviously, we are typical Series A investors, so this is a company that is slightly earlier than our sweet spot. But we still place a lot of emphasis on the founder profile. And this is a testament to that.

Elise Tan: Yeah. And thanks for sharing all this. But I would like to say that I don’t know whether we are good role models for women because we are working during maternity. So, Puiyan, how do we develop the thesis for making an investment into Climate Tech, and particularly into Fairatmos, could you share?

Puiyan Leung: Yeah, so actually, it was a long journey. So I personally started being curious about the topic, maybe in 2021, if we dial back 24 months up to 18 months ago, the whole space is just booming, but people are just throwing jargon in the market, ESG, sustainability, climate. And actually, they mean similar, but also different things. So I kind of took it upon myself to try to read into this space to try to compartmentalise and organise my thoughts.

Because I’m a bit geeky, that way, it cannot be just a conceptual idea, I need to understand and have a good handle on the different concepts. And I kind of realised that in the more advanced markets so for example, US and Europe, when people think about climate, they would be talking about the next frontier technology, what is the carbon capture technology, a more efficient way to capture solar, you know, whatever turbine, but when I examine our Southeast Asia ecosystem, our deep tech ecosystem is still sort of developing, definitely much more nascent than other developed markets.

So then the question for myself is, is there no role for us to play, I realised that there would be because we also have our unique set of challenges that US and European solutions will not be able to tackle. So, therefore, it was so easy after I met Ria, when she talked about her idea because it checked those boxes right.

She’s tapping into something that is naturally rich, in a part of the world, biodiversity, which is leveraging a combination of a simple digital workflow plus her own proprietary IP to give access to the farmers, give them a way to access the global and regional carbon markets, if we can provide more transparency, traceability credibility to the whole system.

And I think Fairatmos is in a good position to do that, then there’s a lot of opportunity that can be tapped upon. So it’s nascent, and I think there’s a lot of work to be done. But the company is hopefully well positioned to make a real impact and also, therefore capture some of this growing opportunity.

Elise Tan: I think maybe it’s good to also talk about the compulsory carbon markets and just to give an entire picture, you know, how developed it has been, and then maybe sharing about the opportunity within the voluntary space and what Fairatmos is doing. So Ria would like to share more with us?

Natalia Rialucky: Yeah. So I guess in the overall context of carbon markets, yes, there are two types, one is the compliance market where it’s heavily regulated, typically governments already ask a certain sector to have a cap on how much they can emit. So in order to meet that cap, they can do either tax or trade and the entire compliance market is to trade that allowance.

Countries in Europe and the US are more mature in implementing such regulations already. Meanwhile, in Southeast Asia, the countries are just starting. Some of them Malaysia, and I think Singapore as well is looking more to the voluntary, given there are still discussions on how we can actually also establish compliance. Meanwhile, Indonesia itself is also starting to design the compliance regulation first, before they actually want to set up the entire compliance market ecosystem.

So this is where we think the voluntary market is, what kind of infrastructure needs to be there, how do we help the project developers to even create the project, how do we help the companies to actually discover good projects, and how do we help them to price what is a good carbon offset, that is both giving them an economic incentive, but also really trickle down towards carbon absorption and impact.

So this is the role that Fairatmos plays. We see three main pain points, one, there are very high technical barriers for the project developers, in this case, communities, smallholders, or asset owners who want to get their project carbon credits certified. And certification is very important because we believe that, you know, the science needs to be proven.

Second, they also have a high challenge of actually acquiring financing to really change their mode of practice. So for example, farmers, typically, just soak all their rice fields with water. If we want to ask them to change to using water dripping, then who’s going to finance it, it’s not going to be cheap, right?

So these two pain points are what Fairatmos is trying to solve with our first product, which is providing a free and fast eligibility check, so then for you smallholder farmers, and for your communities who manage or do the planting of a certain mangrove area, you can just upload a shapefile and we can tell you how much carbon stock is eligible there.

And whether you can be eligible for a carbon credit or not. Everything we do instantly, we do cut time from people who process it around 60 to 90 days, to instantly, right now. And we’re also giving it for free, right, because we know if we want more people to get involved, you need to make it very, very frictionless. So that’s the first way we want to help to have a  carbon market.

The second one is, after the projects that are already eligible, we offer a lot of traditional financing options such as straight loans, and equity, and we match them with funders who would like to do so. But we also have to figure out a design, and create the financing, that is very Indonesia, or very Southeast Asia specific, that is able to provide the cash up front, mitigate the risk of the project, but also provide the payback to the funders or the buyers in the form of carbon credit.

So then the interest of the funders, as well as the interests of the project owners is aligned. Where we are today is we already have very much advancement in financing and tech, how do we actually use this and design the right tools to really advance project developers into entering the carbon markets, as well as catering to the financiers and the buyer’s needs as well, Elise? 

Elise Tan: What is the Hard Truth about building this voluntary carbon market which is more nascent?

Puiyan Leung: From my perspective, as an investor, we are cognizant of certain risks in any investment that we make. The first would be the fact that the whole market is still nascent. I think the good thing is that Fairatmos is definitely one of the early movers in this space. But it also means that Ria and her team carry the burden of opening up the market.

So whether it’s talking to the farmers, educating the corporates or any other partners, this may be the first time they are exposed to the carbon credits market so there may be some inherent inertia, but that is maybe the price that we have to pay to become one of the first mover. And I guess the flip side is actually the market opportunity is very obvious because there’s a vast amount of biodiversity in our region. So once the markets open up, there will be bound to be competition.

It’s not easy to do, but because the market is attractive, it’s large, the size of the price is huge there will be distraction, and there’ll be competition along the way. And I think we will have to rely on Ria and our management team to stay focused and be level-headed when faced with those distractions. So these are my two Hard Truths, I guess here from an investor perspective.

Natalia Rialucky: I think that’s completely true Puiyan. I guess if I can illustrate it a little bit more vividly is primarily in facing a very nascent industry with still uncertain regulations as a founder, you have to think of the big picture and why you’re doing it. So of course, it’s very easy to give up when you face setbacks on things that you cannot control, such as regulation.

If you go back to your why, over and over again, you will find creative ways you can still deliver the impact. And so I guess it really also forces me to really think about building this company in a nonlinear way, with the hope that eventually, things would fall together at the right place at the right time.

Elise Tan: Ria, you mentioned about impact. So I think beyond the whole offsetting the carbon credits, what kind of economic or even social impact you would have on the farmers and other people that you’re working with?

Natalia Rialucky: Increase in income by changing agriculture towards more sustainable practices, is definitely one area, but a bigger proportion of impact in the entire nature-based solutions discussion for climate action, is actually how we can involve and engage communities to be the person who preserves the nature, who conserve the nature, so it’s making them for example, converting them from the one who’s doing the logging, to actually rewarding them and actually paying them to do patrols and to do forest conservation, or even build nurseries. So really giving them more economic opportunities in the entire regenerative economy.

Elise Tan: Yeah, I really love how your system is going to incentivize people to be able to take care of the environment, so that’s super cool. You mentioned how building this in this nascent space is tough. But you have to keep going back to your why. And I want to ask you, has there been any memorable incident that actually helps to keep you going and help you to realise that you’re on the right track?

Natalia Rialucky: Yeah, so the most vivid one was the last luncheon sessions that we had with over 60 mangrove organisations in Central Java. They say the crisis and COVID basically create a lot of instability for these communities who rely on CSR funds to really do planting and replanting of mangroves. Last year alone, there was a big flood that happened because the mangrove coast as a last defense was actually very, very thin.

So for them, this is not a feel-good project. For them, it’s actually about survivability, about being adaptive and defensible to extreme weather and really weathering down the impact of floods in their area. So now, I didn’t understand why they were very excited when we met them, because the promise of carbon markets or a sustainable market to do this is basically it becomes a new economy that runs on its own with matching between supply and demand.

So then, such activity of planting mangroves is another business for them to earn a livelihood, not just like a CSR program. So for me, that was one of the more eye-opening experiences. So no matter how hard the regulation changes and anything, we do believe that this is something that is very important. And we’re doing it for people who actually really need help, and to actually survive.

Elise Tan: So Ria, I’m going to ask you a controversial question. So you may have heard that somewhere in the past because the country is full of mice, the government actually incentivizes people to catch the mice, and then pay them for it in order to get rid of the problem. But what happened is that people started to grow mice and mice in their houses. So I want to ask you, do you see incentivizing the growth of mangroves and other sustainable practices may actually create some kind of side effects?

Natalia Rialucky: I do think there needs to be a balance between giving a reward, and an instant reward compared to a sustainable one. I also hear there are some projects that are just because they want to get certain grants they actually don’t take care of the project longevity because they want to get another grant. But this is why I think the market solution is the right way because the market fixes itself, so the market improves.

So for example, they first know that and I think this is how the carbon market has evolved in the US or Europe, where at first everybody just pouring and buying any type of credit, but then they know, it becomes they just buy junk credits, carbon credits that come from a project that is very short term, it’s not even there anymore, it’s questionable.

But now a lot of criticism actually improves the quality of the project where the money is being flowed to. So that’s why I believe the solution for any problem needs to be returned to a market system. Of course, there’s a need to be regulation. But as much as possible, leaving it towards supply and demand and allowing the feedback system to happen is the more sustainable way to create change and a more sustainable way to really incentivize and create a more lasting solution to climate.

Elise Tan: Cool. And I think it’s an apt time to ask about what’s the Hard Truth about being a mother, you know, working, either investing or running your own startup company, Do you want to share something, and advice for future mothers and entrepreneurs?

Puiyan Leung: I guess maybe the most pertinent one for me is that 24 hours in a day is just not enough. Like, I don’t know how I can describe it. By the way, it sounds really cliche, but it’s true, right? between making sure I deliver at work and between making sure that I spend quality time at home and getting everything in order, then the day is gone.

So it means that I need to be very prudent about how I spend my time and be very efficient in the way I function, whether at home or otherwise. Otherwise, then it’s a missed opportunity to get something else done.

And I think therefore I don’t have the luxury of doing this and that and randomly and this just spontaneously do ABC, I think I’m sure I will have the opportunity again when maybe a couple of years have passed, but at the moment, I am laser focused in being very efficient in everything I do. Yeah, that’s maybe the Hard Truth here.

Natalia Rialucky: I guess for me, the Hard Truth is like, you can’t have everything at the same time. And you definitely can’t do it alone. So right now, again, juggling two kids, the company, being a wife as well and still being a daughter to parents as well, with whatever expectations there are in this world, I guess you just need to be very, you need to know why you choose to do the things that you want to do like what Puiyan said, if you can only do two things in a day, three things in a day make sure that that choice is going to be the one that’s most meaningful for you or for your kids.

I guess that’s also the entire reason why I even started Fairatmos, in the first place because I had my first child I really want to show him that if you want to get something done you better get to do it yourself. So then I left from an advising role to be an operator and you know with my second child I started Fairatmos was also the realisation that a problem that is tough needs someone solving right?

And if no one starts doing that you might as well be the first doing that, because then there will be more solutions, more people who’s going to be confident enough because they’ve seen you do it. So I guess this becomes the reason why I work and why I built Fairatmos. So then when I’m spending time at Fairatmos it’s not like I’m being more away from my kids.

But hopefully, it’s making me closer to my kids, you just also have to ask for help. I’m very lucky that I get a very, very supportive partner, a very supportive family to take care of the kids as well when I’m away. But on the times where I spent it, you really have to be there and make sure it’s time worth spending. And I guess the last one is also about nothing in this world is easy. Everything is hard. Like, being a housewife is hard, being a working woman is hard, and being just a person going through their day is hard. So choose your hard.

Elise Tan: As they say, say choose your poison.

Natalia Rialucky: Yeah, choose your poison, right, and just make sure that’s the one that is worth your life.

Elise Tan: True. And, you know, someone has said that parenthood makes prioritise better. It makes us realise, and think about, how we can be role models for our children. Now, I’m going to switch tracks, I’m going to actually ask Puiyan, besides this area that we have invested in, what other areas would be interesting to invest in from your perspective?

Puiyan Leung: So hopefully, in five years’ time climate is no longer a genre by itself, it should be hopefully embedded in the philosophy of all companies, like, five years ago, many start-ups come out and say that I’m an AI company, I’m this company, I’m that company, but actually now machine learning, AI is embedded in many tech companies, software tech companies.

So it’s no longer just a genre on its own. Hopefully, the climate in three to five years time is and sustainability is sort of a concept that’s embedded in every startup, but I just think that, actually, there are many areas, I think that need attention. So mobility is one of them. I used to work in Indonesia, sort of I think 10 years ago now.

And when I visited two days ago, and the traffic was significantly better. Part of it is thanks to the innovation in the mobility space that has happened in the past 10 years. But there’s still a lot to be done. And then of course, there’s agri, there is the supply chain part, there could be the input-output part that there are many things to solve.

Then, of course, urbanisation is actually not stopping, especially in our region, we’re still actually not really urbanised. But we’re getting more and more urbanised, and therefore we use more aircon, we use more electricity. So the whole built environment is another aspect I think there could be some innovation on and the list goes on and on. Industrial and manufacturing there’s of course a whole genre of renewable energy.

And I think there’s a lot to chew on and there will bound to be, hopefully, a good amount of innovations, whether it is business model innovation or technological advances, that will come out from our part of the world and then we’ll be there to back them when it happens.

Elise Tan: I really feel like we are at the beginning of a new era. And this is a good start. I think one question that I didn’t manage to ask you, Ria, is how Fairatmos makes money. And what do you think is the secret sauce or the moat that you will eventually have?

Natalia Rialucky: The way we create a sustainable business out of Fairatmos is really to make it in line with the impact that we’re delivering. We see Fairatmos as connecting two sides of the market, the developers and the demand of the companies. On the supply side on the project developer side, we do some revenue or profit share model with the projects that we help to successfully certify the credit so that’s on the supply side. Meanwhile, on the demand side, we can really help the companies to discover high-quality projects by charging like typical marketplace platform fee on any of the offsets that are going to be incurred in our platform.

Elise Tan: Got it. Very clear. And we are coming to the last part of our conversation. So since I mentioned that we are honouring International Women’s Day with this podcast. I would like to invite both of you as well, to give pieces of advice for female founders or people who aspire to be one.

Puiyan Leung: It is actually well reported that women somehow apply for 20% fewer jobs than men, despite similar job search criteria or qualifications. It’s also well reported that female professionals apply for jobs only if they feel that they are 100% qualified. But I think when you are in an innovation space, you are actually creating the opportunity yourself.

So if you have an inclination, there’s a problem to be solved be like Ria, right? Like, if no one else is solving the problem, take the leap of faith and not wait for all the stars to be aligned to take the first step. That is, to be honest, really easier said than done, even for myself in my own area of work.

But be sort of that catalyst, if you may, for the change that you want to see, and always lean on mentors, formal or informal, speak to as many people as possible triangulate what is the best path forward for yourself, and iterate quickly, and find the right like-minded people to support you, whether it’s investors or partners and clients.

But I have, in general, a lot of respect for any founders, male or female, because it really takes a lot to be a leader. And to take something from nothing to a potential unicorn status, it takes a lot out of yourself, there will be moments of self-doubt, you know, people will throw all sorts of you know, nonsense at you. And it really takes a lot of grit, a lot of optimism, and maybe a sense of humour sometimes to sort of pull it through so I salute all founders, male, and female.

Elise Tan: Yeah, it’s very true. I think entrepreneurship really pushes you to your limits. And these days, you know, we talk a lot about mental health as well, because it takes so much grit, it takes so much for you to be always on top of your game, it’s important to have a support network, and I think that it’s time that we kind of remove that stigma because we do need that kind of mental exercise, or even just conversation with somebody who is specialised to hear us out and find out what are the areas that we want to optimise as, even humans as normal humans. So, going back to you Ria, what advice would you like to share?

Natalia Rialucky: Maybe I’ll share a little bit of my personal journey. When I just started working and really discovering my place in this whole world, I guess I was almost in a state of telling myself that I’m not very good at things. For example, when I just graduated, I didn’t think I was good at Math.

And then so I shy away for anything that has Math in it, and then I don’t think I’m very good in like, talking to people or like, I don’t think I’m the best person to negotiate things or something like that, that kind of limitation really puts you in a box and make you feel like you only belong in one place, and that is very small that you can only do one thing.

But I guess the biggest realisation that makes me break that actually having a very strong circle of friends and trust, and in this case, actually, it’s my husband, who believed that you can do many things and allow yourself to try and see if you can do it. So I guess, through my journey, and when I was pursuing my MBA, I tried, the most Maths-related job that I could get, which is actually joining private equity.

I also actually tried working with a very early-stage startup at that time, really thinking, I have always been an advisor, can I actually really operate, you know, really breaking those barriers and boundaries that you put in yourself that you said that you are inadequate when you are the one who’s limiting yourself, you basically can’t even do anything, but when you are already telling yourself that dream big, the opportunities and possibilities are actually infinite

Elise Tan: I love that you mentioned not setting limits because as females and being in Asia, I think there are lots of limits that we actually subconsciously or even consciously put on ourselves. And you also mentioned how you actually questioned your own negative thinking. And sometimes you just have to do that when we think about, we’re bad at something, then measure it, because in life, it all is relative.

So if you’re bad, and actually, how bad are you, and if you think of the other ways, actually, how good are you in – where are you on the whole scheme of things, the normal curve? And my last question to you is actually I want to hear about how has been your childhood. What was it like growing up, I think it has a lot to do with how it shaped you as a person.

Natalia Rialucky: It definitely did a lot to who I am today. I grew up in a very competitive sibling rivalry because I am the third child out of four siblings and I grew up in a family that is very, very patriarchal. And in our culture men get to do everything. So then I grew up in a mode of really proving I can do things as well, like, for instance, choices about what school you go to, do you go abroad or do you stay here, basically The family thought women should stay closer to the family that’s why you don’t get opportunities or less opportunities to study abroad.

So these kind of instances built me in a mindset that one, I can prove myself or I need to prove myself, but two also give me the mindset of nothing to lose. But when you press when you push further, in the worst case, you fall back where you were supposed to be. So I guess that goes a long way into shaping myself that is really, wanting to push boundaries, testing a lot of things, and also asking why things are the way they are. And I’m just very lucky as this kind of upbringing actually shaped me to be really upfront with problems and really want to test and discover new things. So I’m actually very glad.

Elise Tan: Yeah, it’s cool. You sound like someone who is very optimistic, and someone who is really not afraid to challenge the boundaries. And I know that all these are ingredients made to be a great founder. I would like to ask Puiyan as well to share where she came from, how it shaped her, and maybe some kind of Hard Truth or advice for females in general, it didn’t have to be female founders.

Puiyan Leung: In my case, it was quite different. I’m the only child. And I grew up in a very humble working-class family. My parents, though, gave me what they could, they made a variable decision to move from Hong Kong to Singapore, to give me a better life, I think that was a life-changing decision for me, which is typical, I suppose immigrant stories, have gone through the Singapore education system it equalised a lot of things, because over here, if you do well, it doesn’t really matter what background you come from, you have equal opportunity.

And I think looking back, it’s really credited to my parents who have made that bold move because they could stand to lose everything, you know, by that time they’re already not young. And they really don’t have anything else except optimism and hope. But I guess also, what shaped me would be my current family support system, obviously, including my husband, I was posted overseas for a while in my previous role in my current role, and sometimes I travel but regardless, the intensity varies, but I do know that whenever I am not going to be around, I know that things are taken care of.

So I feel very, very fortunate. I think maybe what I would hope is that, to be able to show my two sons that actually men and women have equal roles to play at home, and professionally. I want to show that despite whatever background you come from, you can get equal opportunity if you do well and you have the right attitude. I feel very blessed to be given all the opportunities so far, professionally.

Elise Tan: I feel very encouraged by what both of you have shared. So thank you so much. I really enjoyed our conversation. So we have come to the end of it, so thank you so much Ria and Puiyan.

Puiyan Leung: Thank you so much Ria for spending time with us, thanks Elise for your very pertinent questions, and for teasing out maybe our deepest insecurities as part of this conversation, but I think it’s worth a conversation and hopefully, it’s meaningful to the audience as well.

Natalia Rialucky: Yeah, thanks so much for the opportunity Elise and Puiyan, I felt very enlightened as well knowing your story Puiyan, I wish we could also hear from you Elise, but I guess I really hope that whatever we shared here can reach out to more women founders, and founders alike, and it can be an ammunition for us to have more women founders to come. Thank you so much.

Elise Tan: Thank you. You never know, if one word that you mention could inspire somebody else. So that’s what I realise is the impact of what we put out into the world. So, thank you!

Guests: Natalia Rialucky & Puiyan Leung

Natalia Rialucky is the Founder & CEO of Fairatmos, a platform that finds, verifies, and connects carbon projects with businesses looking to reduce their carbon footprint. Prior to this, she was Chief Strategy and Social Impact Officer at TaniHub. She was the Head of Social Impact at the Boston Consulting Group before Tanihub. She has over ten years of experience in agri-tech, impact investing, growth capital, management consulting, and start-ups in South East Asia and the Asia Pacific region at leading firms such as BCG, KKR, TaniHub, Grab, Xendit, and 01VC. She earned her bachelor’s degree in International Relations and Affairs from the University of Indonesia and her MBAs from the University of California, Berkeley, and INSEAD.

Puiyan Leung is a Partner in investments at Vertex. She joined Vertex Ventures SEA & India in 2020 and focuses on opportunities in Southeast Asia. Pui Yan previously worked as a Director of Investments and Operations at Singtel Innov8, the corporate venture arm of Singtel. Prior to that, she held a variety of operational roles, including serving as Singtel’s Indonesia-based lead in representing Singtel’s digital portfolio’s local market development and expansion interests. Pui Yan earned a Bachelor of Electrical Engineering from the National University of Singapore (NUS). She joined the Kauffman Fellows Program in 2019, which focuses on innovation leadership and venture capital for US and global investors.