JT15 | Camille Ang On Accelerating Career With Fast Growing Companies

• Passion makes things come easier.
• Why should you be open to learning new things?
• Building trust
• Act like a leader to be a leader!

Transcript: Camille Ang On Accelerating Career With Fast Growing Companies

Hi everyone. And thanks for joining us for another exciting JobTok. We know that many of you, probably most of you, our ambitious growth minded professionals, seeking ways to accelerate your career but what does it mean to accelerate? How fast can you really go? Given the right opportunities and maybe even with the right skills and the right mindset, is it really possible to rocket to the top? Or do you really just maybe get promoted a year or a couple of years earlier than your peers?

Well, today, we have a real rocket ship story for you with Camille, who went from intern to head of marketing and growth in just a few years. Today, she leads a massive org in a newly minted unicorn. How did she do it? And how can we try to emulate some of her success? Cam, thank you so much for joining us today. Would you like to begin by sharing a little bit of your journey so far?

I am Cam, currently the Associate Director leading Marketing and Growth at Growsari, a B2B e-commerce platform catering to sari-sari store owners (or small mom and pop shop owners), where we help them better source goods for their store, as well as give them access to other services like load, bills payment, online shopping, and the like to make them the best store in their community and standout.

My first job was at Uber which is where I actually interned in as well. Back then in 2015/16, Uber was just known for being a taxi company, and had a lot of bad PR because the government was not a fan of it – so it was tough to convince my family and friends that I wanted to join a company like this, because of job security but given that transportation in the Philippines was not great, and I saw the potential of Uber to improve this – the lives of riders and drivers, I took the chance and joined, as a Marketing hire under the Brand and Campaigns team, creating fun, viral campaigns that made Uber a big and beloved brand.

When the merger happened, I really took that as an opportunity to kind of further explore what’s out there and chance to join GrowSari. And what enticed me was the fact that I was able to make a difference in the lives of these mom and pop shop owners because there were about a million of them. I actually do care deeply about making a difference in the Philippines and that’s my primary guiding light in deciding what company I joined from Uber.

Cam, if I might ask over here. Given that you joined Uber kind of in the face of difficulties in the Philippines, what made you want to take that chance at all? Especially given that family and friends maybe not have been super in favor.

Honestly, it was really because here in the Philippines, the options for public transportation are really not that good even as a woman. It’s so unsafe, either taking the train and things like that. Unlike in companies like Singapore, for example, where these things are pretty. Because it was really hard for someone like me, for example, and imagine all the other people who are like me, I wanted to CF, joining Uber can help really improve this. And when I saw the mission ambition, It was so hard not to jump in. Despite that and I guess also as a person, I am a risk taker to an extent. You can see that when I joined Uber and, because that meant in 2016 GrowSari also was just a really small company but I always look at the potential and so, and that different supply basis.

Okay. So I guess one of the takeaways from this also is that you’ve worked in. In places where you felt very passionate about the product and that resonated with basically your worldview, which is to help people or improve the environment in some way.

I feel like I’m really idealistic, I guess. Maybe that’s also because I’m young and not as jaded. But I mean, even in the future. If I’m able to make these choices, but I feel like as of now, really, I care deeply about making a difference here even if it means taking some risks. I would jump, because I’m driven by my passion and that keeps me kind of excited every single day.

I think passion is a big component in personal and career growth because otherwise you’re kind of working for money and that’s not quite as motivating as working for something that you believe in. So at least for me, I think that’s one of the things that stood out from what you just said. So thanks for that.

Sure. I mean, I kind of jumped into like, just talking a bit about my role at GrowSari. So it’s really interesting because I did purely marketing under the brand attack and then I was an IC for two years, but now in GrowSari, I built the growth and marketing function with over 150 employees under me. And actually have dabbled into many different functions across and in a half years, customer experience operations on top of what I can see. So I think with marketing, it’s pretty straight forward, given that that was my background. It was easy to kind of assimilate into that. But what’s interesting was I was the very first marketing hire.

The thing about working in a startup, I feel, is that, especially in the beginning, the priority is fixing the operations. And then later on kind of build the marketing function. Because my background was marketing, but they didn’t really need me for that yet.

They just said, okay, maybe you should jump in, join the role and I was the first marketing hire. But I eventually dabbled into a lot of operations roles, customer experience, things like that and only like the past two years. I was able to kind of build the marketing function from the ground up and do everything in house. So we have a channel. I’m doing everything at the end. In terms of media, as well as, our own In- house agency, would create all of the artworks and the copies, things like that.

But also on top of my role, because the pandemic hit. It made sense for me to lead the growth function as well. In the past, pre-pandemic, a lot of our sales were generated by field agents who are managed by area general managers from established FMCU companies. Things like that. But because I was already part of marketing and knew how to navigate through the developed channels as part of their roles, they said, okay, maybe you should just lead our demand or growth function, in this time, figuring out how to drive acquisition and revival across all of our different touch points where digital as the, at the forefront of it.

And then only supported by callers and agents. And on top of that, even managers did the forecast as well as our call centre support team. So, this is really such a big change and something, I had kind of just learned how to do it and the process.

So, by listening to what you’re saying, I feel like there are two things that stand out to me, in what you just said.

1. Number one is that you had the flexibility to take on something beyond. You may have been hired for marketing, but you ended up doing other stuff, which is operations, like you said, at the start and product and customer experience and so on. So essentially doing what it takes to move the business forward versus sticking to your role or your dream job description and that’s a very valuable point, Cam.
2. Because I think companies, especially fast-growing companies and especially early in their journey value people who are willing to do what it takes and to look at the company as a whole and move the company forward, versus just thinking about what they have been hired to do, or looking at a narrow focus. So I think that is fantastic. In addition, you also had an opportunity created for you, which you were able to leverage, which is when the pandemic hit, the whole field sales concept essentially disappeared and not just for GrowSari. I think it disappeared for pretty much everybody else.

And so, the companies that could win in that environment had to go digital or more digital very quickly. And you were kind of at the right place at the right time for that because you had the marketing element to this and the whole point of marketing is to get people to do things. in a light touch or remotely. So you were able to kind of flow into that kind of thought process, but again, some of these things, I’m sure, are things that you hadn’t done before.

Therefore you still had an element of expansion or learning in that process as well. That’s a lot of new things to learn and I would say upskilling or up-levelling to keep up with this entire growth and madness. So, if I’d been in your place, I think I would have really struggled to make this many different pivots and flips personally. It almost makes my head spin.

So, how did you manage to Up-level yourself so fast that you were able to keep up with these increasing demands of the role and these changes?

I guess, really quickly, I’ve already had about like five and a half years of experience, but at every single point, I always feel like I’m a fresh grad and I am so open to learning new things and I feel like this is the best time to do it. I think that level of openness, that’s really helped me kind of expand my view. Because back then, I’ve always thought that I finally figured out the role that I love, which is marketing and that’s the fact I will say for myself.

And I feel like if Uber kind of stayed on, I would have gone down that path. But I think that things happen for a reason. And when that merger happened I joined at GrowSari and, I was able to be exposed to all of these things that I didn’t realize I could do but as I jumped into it, I quickly learned and then created best practices so we can kind of scale. So I think this level of openness to learn new things, even if I wasn’t an expert from the get list is incredibly important. And I think the beauty about working in a startup versus, I guess, more established companies and in an industry where we’re trying to revolutionize it is that no one has a playbook yet. So it’s really about being open to experimentation.

You don’t necessarily feel imposter syndrome because I guess. It’s comforting to know that no one really knows what they’re doing. So it’s about creating that for yourself. So, as I was sharing earlier when to find out at the pivot, our business model budgets, it’s all coming from field agents. And for example, with ads position that was the most interesting one, because when you would acquire an area we would usually just deploy agents where we’re really serving the area or things like that?

But that was not as feasible as or safe for the store owners as well as our employees. So we’re going to have to figure out what the right channels that reach our users and that was mostly through Facebook.

But we also realize that people weren’t as ready for a pure and end to end solution yet. So even if people were so familiar with Facebook, in the Philippines, that’s all they know about the internet. That was good In terms of the top of the funnel.

And we wanted to funnel them through the app because we didn’t have agents who would have signed them up or take their order. So, even if we would push them to the app, we would really track where they would drop off and they experienced where they weren’t understanding what the next step is. And then from there, had a hybrid model where we would either send an agent or call them up when they were stuck in the funnel. So I think it was really interesting because it was about trying to figure out how we can make an end to end journey that’s purely digital. And then realizing because of the challenges also where people aren’t as accustomed to  that just yet. We need to come up with a hybrid model and the only way to figure that out there is with a lot of experimentation and testing before.

So I think that was one part of it that really helped but at the same time, I realized also badly into the different views and really having a more holistic view of the business. It’s super important and the growth role that I was doing because the growth role I’m generating then, had never happened in isolation.

Of course you need your partners and operations and supply all of these things that makes sure that everything is efficient and you come up with the right service level. And I’m glad that I was able to do those roles, even in a small capacity in the past. So I remember doing a stamp before fixing our warehouse operations. I remember our dispatch and think back process in the morning because I was still open to doing that. It was so easy to then see how that’s interconnected with my growth. So, I feel like this general openness is really helpful.

Yeah. So this is very helpful, Cam. I think essentially what you’re saying is when people say I’m open to new ideas or things like that, I think they still mean something a bit more narrow than what you’re describing. So essentially, I’m in marketing, I’m open to new ideas, means, If somebody from operations tells me gives me some ideas on how to do marketing, I’m happy to take it and see how I can use it which is good. But that still limits you to what you know with a little bit extra given to you by others. But what you’re saying is that you actually did all those other roles, even if almost like internships in those roles to try and figure out, of course one is to help out, but second is to figure out what’s actually happening downstream from the marketing side and from growth.

So that you can then see the broader picture of the customer experience, from when they discover which is through Facebook all the way through to when actually something’s happening like they’re onboarding, they’re actually fulfilling orders and things like that. And also the actual order fulfillment itself at the warehouse and so on. So, essentially you’re saying this gave you like a bird’s-eye view of the entire thing, which made you a better growth marketer or a better marketer.

Therefore you could give much more sensible, strategic, holistic kinds of solutions. And so therefore that also made you more valuable to the company in that respect. And therefore people are able to trust that, okay, this person knows what they’re talking about and let’s give her more responsibility.

I feel like, because I learn their processes, I’m also able to come up with recommendations for them. How’s that credibility that impacts my work streams? I think that’s really interesting because I feel like in marketing, it’s a big shift because I feel like sometimes it’s easy for another team to give you the brief and then you work on that in isolation and then bring that to life.

When a role like growth which is the main KPI with the company, just this level of openness. Really helps and understanding all of the different functions and how that comes into play. I see it really has helped me.

In fact, I think that’s what position you as a leader. I mean, look, ultimately to be made a leader. You have to first be a leader, act like a leader. And that’s where this strategic guidance is able to actually give other people insights on their functions. It’s what would have positioned you in that kind of mind space, which is why GrowSari was comfortable having you eyes up the ranks to get to where you are today. And it’s also commendable because it’s not common, I think for marketing folks to be driving too much of the thinking, on the company front, unless the company is a marketing led company Proctor and gamble or something like that but essentially logistics or e-commerce or things like that, that’s not quite common. So it is, I think, extra interesting that you were able to actually play that kind of a business driving role. So, this is great.

I am surprised. But I feel like I’ve just grown so much, I guess. And in the past three and a half years that I’ve been here as well and I feel like this is the past I’ll be taking for sure.

The other thing, though, that really helps me beyond being open to whatever it’s the strategies or, open to learning what other teams are doing is also people management. So I mentioned earlier that I was reading over a hundred people from different levels. And many of them are, I mean, younger, older from different backgrounds, all of these things. And It’s really about figuring out how I could deliver with others. And this is super interesting as a, like a learning for me because I’m back at Uber, I was a very strong IC. I did not have a single director for it.

So. It’s such a big shift to just be given this responsibility and when you’re an IC, it’s a lot easier because you do things on your own. You are in control of exactly how you want it but It’s a little different when you have to leverage your team to do it. And it’s all about striking a balance between driving clarity on the brief and giving direction, but never telling them exactly what to do because you don’t want to micromanage them, even if it’s, sometimes it feels like that’s more efficient. And when a startup where the timelines are so aggressive. Things need to get done yesterday. Sometimes it’s easy to fall into that grit. That’s where, okay, let me just do it because it’s so much easier but so it isn’t such a big guy. Yes, someone also aside and really wants to be in full control.

No, that’s true. It is quite a temptation for someone who knows how to do something, to just either tell the person how to do it, or just pretty much do it. So it’s almost like then the other person becomes just arms and legs versus being a thinking individual. But that is not scalable because you can instruct five people, 10 people maybe, but you can’t instruct hundreds of people, one by one. So, it is a valuable point that you’re bringing up, which is if you want to rise up and you, and you’re going to be managing people and presumably more and more people, you have to find a scalable model for having that organization to work. And that comes from delegation, not from micromanaging or task lists. So, I think that’s a really good point.

And I think what’s interesting about going through this string and It’s about finding the balance between scalability, but also I guess, some level of personalization. Because I think at the end of the day, There’s no single style that works for everyone and especially when you have such a big team, everyone’s different and they’re wired differently. They’re motivated differently. Things like that. And so a lot of what I had to understand in the beginning was really how everyone best works and then try as much as possible to tailor fit that approach to their style, to enable them to do their best work. So for example, I have two types of direct reports, one is someone who just wants to be given some general direction and align on principles and then they can run with it and be autonomous within that. But there is another type of direct report who wants to brainstorm and collaborate and flesh out ideas and things like that.

So it’s really hard to kind of force one into doing one and one to the other. And honestly it would be so much easier if everyone’s like direct reports number one. But that’s not the case. And so I really just create systems in place for me to carve enough times so If this team needs brainstorming sessions I make sure, I slot that in my calendar and things like that. It’s the balancing of personalization because if I also have a different approach for every single person, I guess it’ll also be too difficult.

So I think that’s one part of it, but the other thing I also learned driving clear prioritization as well as boundaries are incredibly important. So in a startup, there’s really a lot of things to do. And honestly, everything is urgent but I guess the role that I see is to really be clear on priorities so they know what to focus on and then what they should be prioritizing.

So for example, we have a Google sheet, that we put the priorities for the week. So it’s not about me writing it for them and for every single person, but them knowing their KPIs already. We’ll create priorities based on what’s most important to them. And when it feels like there’s too much or things aren’t correctly prioritized, I just stepped in and prioritize for them. I think this helps because this removes the date the day, like, what are you doing? Daily stand ups, what you did yesterday and things like that.

And you just have a system where everyone knows exactly what to do, because we’re all on the same page in terms of the KPIs. And then people just have made that as it happens and then, we have an open communication when things are moving as time. So I think that’s that.

And that’s an element of scalability as well. So I think the stuff that you’ve said so far, points towards the ability to kind of get more done through people and the only way to do that is to do it in such a way so that you are not the bottleneck or you are not the person who is doing all the thinking, because that is not possible. So these are all ways of getting to a place where people can operate independently with the thread back to the manager or to the head of the organization. So, also really good tactics, actually.

And then I guess the last thing is also because there’s a lot of things going on. I do also make it a point to create boundaries for the team. Because I think the problem with working in a startup and also in the pandemic is that you don’t know the lines of like work and life get too blurred. You’re sitting in your room working through the day, you don’t realize it’s evening and then you just keep working. And I feel like because I personally experienced that. I’m sure everyone in my team does as well. And I didn’t want that to be the reason for burnout. So, I also create these boundaries within my team. Many times I hear this from other people where you have to create the boundaries for yourself and I honestly feel that that’s valid.

I personally, for example, it can’t say that after like 7:00 PM, I’m going to stop working already. I don’t work on Sunday, things like that. And that’s fair but as a manager, I feel like there’s also that responsibility where you create that boundary for teammates because you also understand what you’re going through. So I had this problem before where I would keep sending word messages whenever I think of them and usually it happens at night. Because it’s your downtime. You now have time to take a step back. You’re not caught. Up in meetings and things like that. But I realize that the moment I send it that creates stress for my team. Even if I say at the end, you don’t need to reply because they got it from me.

So, what I tried to do now is for example, simple things, like I schedule my message for the next day. We use telegram for work. So, that’s a feature that exists. I blocked out and I remind myself not to message during these times and things like that. I feel like these things, even in the smallest place, really create boundaries that help better manage the work life balance.

And it is important for the manager to set those rules because yes, people can set their own boundaries, but all said and done there’s peer pressure. So if X has set a boundary at 7:00 PM, but Y has set at 9:00 PM. X is going to start feeling guilty or pressured at some point.

So it’s better that there’s just some common rules that are set up. And so nobody feels that they have to do more than whatever those rules say. So I think that’s a valid one.

Yeah, I remember it, especially in the beginning of the pandemic, I was really trying to figure out how to manage specific things. And it’s hard because as someone who is, I guess, significantly more dedicated to the work than the team because of the level of investment I have. It was really, really hard to think on their behalf. My boundaries could really be 10:00 PM and for someone it’s not it. It’s simple things like we collated everyone’s sacred times, and then the earliest one sacred time. So I’m just trying to figure out how to just show people that we care deeply about them having a work-life balance as well, because if you have people you interview, they will always ask about good, nice balance. And everyone says, of course, we respect work-life balance and things like that. But honestly, it’s also in the way we create these rules and adhere to them to show them also that we care deeply about them. So I feel like these are what really helps.

Essentially, it’s not about what you say, it’s about what you do. So what you’re saying is you’re walking the talk.

I think it’s quickly connected to that as well as I do create a space for my team to be vulnerable and honest with me as well and vice versa. And I feel like I guess this is more a personal style. And I don’t think that not everyone may necessarily be as comfortable as me on this, but I guess I’m the first one to, for example, apologize when I feel like I made a mistake or, I was being overly demanding about something and realize what they are on. I acknowledge, think fast and I also constantly give them feedback in a real-time way. And because of these things that I do, I’m able to create an environment where the team knows that they can talk to me about anything. So I feel like this just really helps me because I’m able to get a post of where the team stands whether that be inside or outside where I’m able to find it unblocked these things and improve the ways of working moving forward as well. So I feel like I am just very, I guess, I overly communicate maybe sometimes to a fault, but I feel like this really helps. I just create this environment where it’s a safe space for the team. And I’m always aware about what’s going on if they’re experiencing any challenge, things like that.

So I think overall, like all the stuff that you’re seeing which is you try to tailor your style to the person. You try to set boundaries. You help people figure out their priorities, but without micromanaging, you create a space for people to be honest and vulnerable. All of this ultimately creates trust. And if a team trusts each other. There’s actually some research that shows that trust actually is one of the bigger determinants of success and outcomes than just having a bunch of super intelligent people trying to work together. So I think you’ve hit upon a formula for scaling yourself through others, obviously which involves trying to bring people together and get them focused on an outcome at their most productive, because the environment is like that. So, I think that’s where you’ve ended up landing, which is pretty cool. It’s a great formula to discover actually.

I think that it really helped the team but also I feel like that has helped me also grow as a person because I feel like It’s just about understanding everyone. And I realized also that, because I’m able to create this trust, like things I would never imagine a direct report would tell their manager, like, for example, someone in my team was able to receive an offer really early on. And I’d be the first to know. I mean, I don’t think this necessarily happens when people don’t trust you enough beyond their manager.

That’s one example, the other extreme one is my direct reports telling me, for example, they’re going through a heartbreak. And so they can’t work for the next few days, which I openly accepted. Cause I completely understand that in another world, you would never tell your manager that very deeply. I feel like these things really just help because, they can trust me and I do trust them as well to do their best work and if they’re not in a place to do so, they can always let me know and that’s fine.

Okay. So this is about people management and I think you’ve come a long way. I have to say from being an individual contributor to building such a high-performing team. So you know, we talked about the fact that you were open to exposing yourself to new opportunities and new things to learn and the second part was then executing through a team and trying to make them aligned in one direction and so on. So, this is fine, but then how does work actually get done? Because ultimately success, or personal success is a function of outcomes. So how do you actually deliver outcomes finally?

I learned only in GrowSari also has to be execution bias and really have their results constantly testing. There’s always like, this premium, coming up with the best strategy and things like that. It’s the fun part, but in a startup, you have the space to actually constantly optimize and if it fails, that’s fine. Then we do something different and then do better. So I think a lot at the forefront what we do concept test and learn, AB testing, optimization. We actually employed this framework in grocery for the groupth team called like a champion challenger loser framework. So basically in every objective that we want to hit, for example, acquiring a user or a user that cycle, we have a neuro program that we tried to crack that whether that comes from strong insights with the data that we have, as well as insights qualitative across social when we do interviews, things like that to come up with a strategy on like an execution, for example, that’s a promo to revive users. What happens is we build that end to end, we do a postmark then, and then once we’ve learned from that, we come up with a challenger promo that is a quick iteration of the previous one. Whether it be the challenger promo, which is a slightly bigger offer. If we make this offer bigger, would the conversion rates be better? And then that’s the challenger and if that wins over the champion. Then the previous one becomes the loser and then we test again. Up until we reach a point where we feel like this is the best pickup rate we could get. Then this is what we ramp up our scales.

So this is the mindset, the employee for every single thing we do because that’s the mindset we want to have and it’s not about just landing one execution, thinking this is the best we can do. And then move on to another. So I think this is one thing that I think is really a kind of core capability that the growth team does.

And it’s in fact it keeps you moving, because they’re still, even when you are trying to come up with the challenger, there is a champion process that is running. So you aren’t sitting around in committees trying to figure out what’s the ideal way to do something. You’re doing something and if you can find a better way to do it, then that becomes the champion. And then so on. But it keeps you moving forward, which is, I think there’s a lesson that a lot of people could probably learn both at startups and maybe even in larger companies. So, it’s a great framework. So thanks for sharing that one.

Sure. I mean, honestly we are doing this. Like for every type of execution. So it doesn’t just apply to promos, but also even key messages and campaigns. For example with acquisition ads. But what would be the best reason to believe our key message that we want to drive. Is it free delivery? Is that our white assortment? Is it our best pricing? All of these things. ABC, ANCD and So many versions of tests to really see where we land and actually it’s not even just broadly kind of thing since we’re also present in many different areas, for example, we’re in Metro Manila, we’re in like,up north Bonbanga eventually expanding the Visayas. And then now we have these mini Fest on an area level, because we can assume also that, the same reason to believe what our key message would be effective across the board. So the rigo we put around, for example these desperate acquisition is super important. And on top of that, we also find events, which ad formats work better. So, quote, video, ad and Giff. We feature a real person or illustrations, that type of thing.

We also kind of broadened the test to see, which is most effective. And then once we already had built the baseline of, Hey, these are the most. I want to turn off the ones that aren’t and. Then think about other kinds of routes and continuously optimize. So, that’s really the mindset that we have which I think really works for a company like grocery as well, where you really do have this space to make mistakes. Because these mistakes allow you to learn and pass the new thing to come up with the best execution.

So, essentially, you’re saying that the execution part is just a part of experimentation as, as you keep experimenting, you’ll, you’ll figure out the way to success and that’s how the company grows. And because you are the person who’s driving those things, you also grow along with that. You build a lot of learning and knowledge about what works, what doesn’t work, and also by geography, by situation and so on. This is great. So before we close. Cam. I wanted to ask you, you’ve achieved a lot of success in your career. I mean, much more than the vast majority of people are going to achieve in such a short span of time. But is there anything that you would do differently in what you’ve done so far?

I think it’s really not about what I would do differently because I feel like the choices that I’ve made, for example, in my career for moving that Uber and then GrowSari, lead me through where I am today. And I feel like if any of those things changed, I feel like I would imagine a different person probably doing different things in a different company, you know? So I really am glad of how things panned out. I mean, initially, for example, when the merger happened, I felt devastated. It’s probably the worst day of my life. I don’t know where I will end up but I feel like these things just happen for a reason. And I’m so happy with where I ended up today. Even in the roles that I took on, I feel like if I didn’t immerse myself, in all of these different functions, I wouldn’t be as effective as where I am today. So I feel like I’m pretty happy. So I think that’s the first point. But in terms of me being in GrowSari now, and as the company matures, we can say we’re still a startup, but we’ve closed rounds of funding and we’re moving towards becoming a larger company. I think a lot of the mindset I would need there of this quite a bit. So, for example, I was talking about the ability to create many initiatives against each other, but as a company scales, Is there a balance keeping that mindset but also maybe moving to fewer, bigger things. The questions like that or how do I further scale out the team? Even be more empowered, continue to become strategic members of the team versus just focusing on execution because capacity is the same and I need the upscale people, things like that. So I feel like it’s a lot of these questions that I have in my head that I feel like would be the next journey.

I think those have pretty valid points because as the company grows bigger, what used to once be a needle moving thing with an AB test may no longer be. I mean, maybe it’s now just going to be fractions of a decimal point change, if you do those things and then it’s not worth trying to test that and so therefore I think the initiatives will have to become bigger and by nature of being bigger, they will end up being fewer which also means that then there’s more of the strategic thinking and, and stuff. Hopefully not decided by committee, which is for really big companies maybe, but somewhere in between where things become a little better, planned, more strategic, more thoughtful, and with more people involved in making that thing happen versus small things that you could iterate in days. And with the people front, at least to me, it seems like one of the challenges will be how do you grow leaders? So you’re people need to scale up and start doing more and stuff, but you’ll also need leaders because as the company grows, 150 people will eventually become a thousand, and some of these people have to be individually capable of managing 150 people. So, how does all of that actually end up happening? So that will be an interesting journey.

I know. I feel like I’ve prayed just straight in such a strong team. But it’s really about continuously upscaling them and creating leaders because on a very personal note, we’ll want to explore a different role within GrowSari which is completely different from what I do now. So, I mean, and this whole desire to be open to new experiences, I want to lead a different filler and build that from the ground up, which means I need to create leaders to continue to run the department that I have today. So it’s going to be an interesting next year or so.

And that’s the true test of success, right? Which is if you were to move to something else, then can. That function continued to run as well, or maybe even better as time goes on, versus just collapsing because if it collapsed, clearly like it wasn’t built to be a strong function. It was a strong leader with a weak function, essentially. So I do appreciate the challenge. I think both of these are actually very good points that you bring up. So, Cam I think it’s been a great conversation, really appreciate you sharing your story. And just to recap for the folks on the call.

1. I think one of the first things that you said today was that the choices you made about where to join were born out of passion. And so therefore you’re deeply invested in what’s being done. And therefore naturally more inclined to make the best of it and move it forward because it affects you personally. So, that’s one.
2. The second thing is that you were very open to learning new things. And took advantage of opportunities to learn and to develop a breadth of knowledge, well beyond your job scope or job role. Which then allows you to give more insight to people, more strategy work with other teams and therefore present yourself as a leader versus a person working in a narrow role in a specific function.
3. The third one, I think you said, was about people management and how you were able to work out with people on their own terms so that they learn to trust you and then trust each other and become essentially a high-performing team versus a bunch of individuals doing some tasks somewhere. So, that was the other point.
4. And finally, I think, we talked about execution and I think what you described was to learn as you go model through experimentation which helps keep the business moving forward while also continuously improving it on the side and that’s what helped, obviously your function grows the business grow and since that’s worked out well, you also therefore got the advantage of that growth in business, in terms of personal growth as well.
5. And finally I think the next year or the next couple of years is going to be about how do you set this up to be an independent function, well run, works even without you in that place? And also, how can you start thinking more strategically and get your people also to start thinking more strategically into bigger things, more needles, moving kinds of things?

Very good insights, Cam. I think for the folks listening to this, there’s a lot of good tactical stuff in here that they could use themselves. I do think it is rare for somebody to grow at the speed that you’ve grown, but if people take these points to heart, I’m pretty sure that they will accelerate their career because they will no longer come across as a small functionality in a small function but more like a broad thinking leader. And that’s the first step towards accelerating your career, because if you can come across as a leader, people will give you opportunities to lead. So, thanks a lot, Cam, for sharing your experience with us today. Really appreciate having you here.

Thank you so much for having me.

And thanks everyone for joining us on JobTok today. It was a great conversation for me and I really hope that you take away something from it as well. And we’ll see you next time. Take care.