JT19 | Vivi On Overcoming A Non-Tech Background To Become A Tech Company GM

Ever wondered why some people seem to zoom ahead in their careers, getting promoted seemingly every year, while the rest of us remain stuck in place, begging for promotions that come maybe once in three or four years?

Today we are talking with Aviana Elisabeth Audrey or Vivi as she is known to pretty much everyone. Vivi is the recently-promoted GM for GrabFood in Bandung, Indonesia, and her short but stellar career so far is exactly the kind of example I was talking about.

Check this out and let us know if you find something useful for yourself.

Discussion Topics: Vivi On Overcoming A Non-Tech Background To Become A Tech Company GM

• How to prepare to be the best candidate for a vacancy.
• How networking plays a part in the promotion.
• How Vivi manages people who are younger and more experienced than her.
• Lessons learned and tips to advance your career.

Transcript: Vivi On Overcoming A Non-Tech Background To Become A Tech Company GM

Ever wondered why some people seem to zoom ahead in their career, getting promoted seemingly every year, while the rest of us remain stuck in place, begging for promotions that come maybe once in three or four years? Those are the rules, your manager tells you – and yet, these rules don’t seem to apply to those charmed people. You feel jealous – what do they have that you don’t – but also anxious, because maybe you’re not as good as you thought you were. Perhaps you’re doomed to remain on the slow track forever. Is this all there will be?

Hi there, this is Amit back again with another episode of JobTok. Today we’re having a chat with Aviana Elisabeth Audrey or Vivi as she is known to pretty much everyone. Vivi is the recently-promoted GM for GrabFood in Bandung, Indonesia, and her short but stellar career so far is exactly the kind of example I was talking about. In just about three to four years, she managed to make her way from intern to GM in a tech company – and without even having a tech background. Incredible, isn’t it? Early-career Amit would have been obnoxiously green with envy.

We’re going to quiz her today on how she made it happen. Is it all voodoo magic or connections or is there something actually actionable that we can all adopt and learn from in order to accelerate our own career the same way she has shaped hers? Let’s find out.

So Vivi, thanks so much for joining us today. Before we begin, would you like to introduce yourself and share your career journey so far so people get a sense of how far you’ve come and how fast?

Thanks for having me. Hi everyone. My name is Adriana Elisabeth Audrey, but people do call me ViVi. So I’m actually Indonesian but I went to Singapore when I was 15. So I got scholarships there. Initially, I pursued a design degree but not long after that, I got a good opportunity at Uber and I met you. So it’s been around like five years where I first got a taste of working in a tech company. I didn’t know how I actually work in this super hectic schedule where everyone is just so busy with meetings and et cetera. But I tried to just keep up and do what I can. I started to discover and develop myself a lot of practical things, hard skills, soft skills. That’s when I get to know more about tech in general and met a lot of great people. From that, I actually explored the other Startups from educational background and then from cybersecurity and now I am at Grab.

And I think you became a GM in one of the biggest cities in Indonesia and that was just a couple of years after joining.

Yeah. So I joined Grab in 2019. And then I started off as a strategy and planning lead and then, I got promoted to strategy and planning manager. And then when they were looking for a GM, I applied for that and here I am as general manager.

I think you mentioned that when you applied to become a GM, you prepared yourself to be the best candidate. What are these factors that made you into such a good candidate and how did you actually plan these last few years? So that you were able to actually make such a rapid growth in your career.

I guess when I first joined Grab, I didn’t expect much. My background was more into operations and I did a little bit of sales here and there and did business development as well. I didn’t have exposure to strategy data but I saw people working in strategy and saw how they made decisions through data and it fascinated me. So, I wanted to challenge myself when I first applied to Grab.

So in the beginning, I was just expecting myself to survive in that strategy and planning lead role, because it’s a bunch of new things, right? I didn’t even know how to do forecasting or budgeting or competition study. But my manager guided me, I learnt things by doing them and kept challenging myself one step at a time. One of the biggest challenges for me and what I learned was managing people and stakeholders. I was also proactive in meetings and took ownership for everything I do. So, it helped me stand out more than my peers. I started to discover my strengths and some areas I needed to improve. I had a deeper conversation with my manager to understand my career development plan in this company.

It was actually a bold conversation with my manager back in the day but I asked these questions and learned the steps I needed to take and climb up like the ladder. I remember my performance review where I always get this feedback that I need to balance my time between work and life. That’s when I started to think about delegation and grooming the team in order for me to grow.

So, ViVi, you took the initiative to go to your manager and say, okay, what does it take for me to become a GM which is amazing because hardly anybody does it. And it looks like you knew what you wanted. You also had a supportive manager who sat down with you to guide you. You took your feedback from others and improved yourself as well. That is fantastic. You mentioned at the start that you wanted to get things done and speak up and you are not satisfied with the status quo. If you found some area of improvement, you would try to do that. How did you find that experience? Because you were fairly junior and fairly early in your career and seeing things like, okay, we need to improve this. We need to fix that. How was that received or how did you present these kinds of arguments?

That’s a very good question. I’m really grateful, like for all the managers that I had before and who really provided me with the platform to give me the opportunity to speak up.  Everyone is welcomed to actually voice out what we think? During my time at Uber, I was just an intern but I got appreciated a lot by my managers when I actually speak my mind. And I started to build my confidence even more since then.

So you mentioned that in tech companies and maybe growth companies, people have the opportunity to speak up, but not everybody does. So how did you bring up the courage to speak up the first time, or how did you feel?

I still remember being called out during the first big forum meeting to answer for the metrics that showed up in the deck. I think that was the first thing that got me started. There was no choice, but to answer. But along the way, I started to observe people as well. How they answer questions in meetings or maybe the way they speak up even without anyone asking.

I learned that if I want to stand out, I need to make an impression and let people know what I’m thinking. I learned from my ex-colleague that there are so many brilliant ideas and there’s a good chance that the same idea is being thought by a lot of people but not a lot of people speak up their ideas and it’d be advantageous to make people hear what your idea is.

I think you make a valuable point. Often it’s not the smartest idea that get people recognized. Like you said, a lot of people have these ideas. Most of this is not some rocket science impossible thing. But somebody has to say it. And if nobody says it, then that will never get done. And it is a fact of life that the person who has the guts to, or the visibility to be able to say this is the one who gets ahead and that’s fair because they know what they’re talking about. Therefore taking that risk is important in order to position yourself as a future leader.

I think that’s a good tip for everyone, ViVi. Also, everybody has that the people who get ahead of the ones who’ve done the most networking or have the best connections. Do you have any thoughts on that? Because I know you did connect with a lot of people and reached out. So what do you think on this topic?

To be honest, in the beginning, it was a huge challenge to even start a conversation. I didn’t know anyone and I felt so left out, sitting at the corner of the Uber office back then. I think networking to me is not something that comes naturally, because I don’t even know how to start a conversation with a colleague. But when I started to work in this tech company, I got a lot of help from the people around me. They were quite friendly.

What I did was just building a genuine connection with them. I just thought of getting to know them better, just to exchange ideas or ask them for lunch and then just pick up their brains to know what they are doing. Eventually, I started to see the habit in tech companies, where the employees could book each other’s time via Google Calendar. At Grab, there’s something like a matchmaking bot that connects with people from other departments. So, I built my courage to reach out to them.

So, you’re saying networking doesn’t come naturally to you but the way that you do is not really networking. You’re just reaching out to people to make friends and to get to know them better. And the work is secondary. That’s a really good piece of advice because the concept of networking makes it feel like a high pressure thing. If you’re not an extrovert or really that interested in just striking up a conversation, it’s actually quite difficult. But your point is that you’re just getting to know you as a person, just for fun and it’s wonderful. It’s a really good way of approaching this.

I also wanted to touch on one point that you’d mentioned to me. You’re not from a tech background, yet you’ve somehow found your way into tech companies and have been very successful there. How did you even start out getting opportunities to work in tech? Did that involve any level of networking or how did you do that?

I think I got into all the good opportunities throughout my career with referrals. My friends referred me to join a summer internship at Uber then when I jumped around a few companies, it’s also through referrals. My background in design wasn’t a good advantage in tech companies but my network helped me get in front of the doors.

How did you build professional network? Like how did you know people who worked in tech companies or how did you build that?

My referrals are mostly people I knew along the way or people I worked with. In the case of Grab, it was the ex-manager from Uber. I didn’t report to him but I greeted him every time I met him and I built a connection like that naturally, but it turned out to be a good advantage for me because like they knew me and they see my work I think it’s a good advantage as well by having good friends in all sectors, not just impact.

I think it is going back to the same point, which is getting to know people as people. And then it works out. All of the stuff that you shared just now on networking and connecting with people I think is very helpful. One question I have, now that you’re a GM of a reasonably large city in Indonesia, where do you see things going now? What are some of the maybe challenges or learnings that you feel that you need to have now to progress again for the next level?

When I was strategy lead or manager, I acquired a bunch of new skills and I got comfortable with managing P&L. I managed a small team and my stakeholders. So I thought that I could just crush it as a GM but little did I know it is a lot more responsibilities and more pressure and now I’m actually leading almost a hundred people and that’s a lot. The extent of people management is also expanding. I’m not just managing fresh grads but I do manage people who are even more senior than me and have to manage the expectations of the stakeholders as well. So basically there are a lot of new things that I started to learn as a GM.

My delegation got amplified as well. Now that I’m managing the city, I need to know almost everything that is happening, trust my team and manage the stakeholder’s expectations at the same time. I think that are pretty much the challenges that I’m facing right now. And I’m still working on myself and improving my skills in those areas.

You mentioned something about how you’re now managing people, some of whom are older than you or at least have more experience. How do you handle that? Because it’s an interesting problem. How do you actually handle that or any tips for others, managers who are young who may be facing the same situation?

Now that you mentioned it, I realized all my direct reports are older than me and have been in the company much longer than me. It took me a while to get used to the new environment. I was more confident when I was managing younger people because I know that I’m more experienced in a way. Now that I’m managing more senior people, I ask questions to my previous manager about how they manage their team, what kind of advice they could give me.

They told me to treat them as a great asset with perspectives and experience that are wider than I have. So, the first approach I did was to listen to them. I didn’t do much micromanaging but I do hear what their thoughts are, what is going on in their mind and look at their working style to see where I can block myself in to add value. So my job here is not changing who they are but seeing where I can help them to grow their team or to support them better. I think in my position, what I could bring in is the thinking and the support for them but not the operational stuff that they are already comfortable with.

So essentially, you don’t get into the details of their work, because the assumption is that they know their work. You actually take that advice and guidance because they have a broader perspective sometimes and what you’re trying to do for them is maybe more alignment, removing blockers and things like that. So it’s more about the team versus changing the individual. I think mostly what people want is to be acknowledged for what they bring to the table and essentially that’s what you’re offering them.

To add on that point, after a while they do appreciate me for listening to them because their thoughts and ideas are being heard. And they started to see where I can add value and what they thought are already good enough to get their teams running. And they are the one who actually approached me for advice, or even ask what I think about certain things? Because they see that I can do things differently and more efficiently. They asked me when they feel comfortable, but in the beginning I was just there to listen and set the direction.

This is a really good insight. As a last question, do you have any advice to share with others who might want to follow in your footsteps or maybe what you might have done differently? So that they don’t have to repeat the same mistake.

I would say for anyone who is interested in becoming a GM to consider if that is the right position for you. Ask questions like what exactly they are looking for or what kind of career or feature they are thinking for themselves. I was offered 2 different positions that will advance my career but in the opposite direction. I became GM because I love people and like to invest time in people. But for those who enjoy going deep into a specialty of role, you can still manage people but your scope of work is focused more on specific functions.

When I became a GM, I started to lose the excitement of doing things personally, because I signed up to become a people manager and there are things that I had to let go. For example, I’m not involved in a lot of hands-on stuff anymore. So when I see the results it is more towards celebrating my team’s success and for those of you who love to do things like running a project or experiments, GM might not be something that you are looking forward to.

Another advice is to be prepared for the responsibilities that will come with the title, GM. You will be managing a lot of people with different backgrounds and working styles as well and you need to adapt to that and be flexible. Because we are here to empower them, not to change them. So, I hope people think about these things before signing up for this.

I think most of the time it’s a combination of setting direction, and catching up with the team fighting fires. Vivi, this was a fantastic conversation. I really enjoyed this whole thing. I think I learned a lot of things as well, and I’m hoping our audience has done that as well.

Summary: Vivi On Overcoming A Non-Tech Background To Become A Tech Company GM

I just wanted to summarize what we discussed. First of all we started this chat by talking about how people think there’s some magic or networking that is responsible for people’s success, but that isn’t all of it. There is some networking, but that’s not the whole thing. It seems to be like there were four things that people could focus on in order to get noticed and hence get ahead, at least in the early part of their career.

1. The first is to have a goal or to be intentional. So figure out where you want to go and what it takes to get there. So you can position yourself as the best candidate for the role. And this is super important because I think hardly anybody does this and it’s faster than going promotion by promotion.
2. Second point is a drive to improve. So don’t just be satisfied with whatever’s happening. Highlight areas for improvement. Have the boldness to speak up, bring solutions and go beyond your comfort zone and your role.
3. Third point is on the connections. So you need to build connections, but this is not about formal networking or name dropping. The main point is getting to know people as people and making friends even if it doesn’t come naturally.
4. And the last point is to be open to learning new things and challenging yourself. So you’ve had a bunch of valuable experiences. So take every opportunity as a way to move forward and challenge yourself. And people should be looking to do that if they want to achieve their respective goals.

As a bonus tactic, at least my learning was, if you want to become a business head, then taking a role in strategy and planning might be a pretty good shortcut because you learn the business without doing it.

So we were Amit and ViVi with JobTok. See you next time.