S2E3 | What’s My First Step In Building A Personal Brand?

Is Elon Musk a gifted man of science or an evil genius? The answer to the question depends entirely on your perception, a perception that is central to your personal brand. In the context of brand marketing, you absolutely cannot leave a room without hearing the word ‘personal brand’ casually thrown around. And yet, why isn’t everyone successful at building one? In marketing, we always say, ‘If it were that easy, it would have been done already.” Brand building takes time, effort, and energy most of all. It isn’t that one instance of showing up and posting something online, but about having the energy to do it over and over again. And then some. But what exactly is the process for building a solid personal brand? And if you’re a founder, should it be the same as your company brand?

Discussion Topics: What’s my first step in building a personal brand?

• Whether you realise or not, you already have a personal brand. But is it the one you want?
• Celebrities are now launching products leveraging their personal brand. But would you buy?
• Hasita is a Marvel fan, but not in the usual way. That’s part of her personal brand.
• You need to be authentic, yet purposeful so your brand works for you; but authenticity is not the same as transparency.
• A company’s narrative could be a combination of the founders’ personal brands, but the messaging needs to be harmonised.
• You could also choose to have a separate narrative, but with aligned values.
• Personal brands are built through story-telling. But can your story enrich others?
• How Reese Witherspoon got to be worth almost a billion just by being helpful.
• Topic-Al: Learning from recent flops, successes and things that make you go hmm.

Transcript: What’s my first step in building a personal brand?

Subha: A lot of big words come to mind when I think of this person Hasita, billionaire, rocket science, business maker, truly eccentric, and quite the maverick. But he really did not think he would bring a company down to its knees like this.

Hasita: Yeah, we’re talking, of course about Elon Musk and the things that he is or isn’t doing with Twitter, and what’s going on there, right, something or the other seems to be happening on a daily basis.

Subha: Yeah, I think, you know, all the words that I used to describe him, I mean, that’s his brand, and then I’m thinking, okay, you’ve paid a lot of money to buy Twitter and so my expectation is stay on brand, and work your rocket science magic and make Twitter this amazing utopia that we have all been waiting for, but it’s so frustrating, to see it just go the other way.

Hasita: You know what I mean, are you surprised? I’m not really surprised you know what I mean? Because he is an evil genius. He is the eccentric guy, like you said, and he will continue to be I guess, I’m not surprised that he’s breaking a few things before figuring out how to fix them. I mean, I hope he’s figuring out how to fix them.

Subha: Interesting, like, how we see his brand so differently I didn’t think of him kind of breaking it down to fix it.

Hasita: So true. I mean, why is it that eccentric genius, or the evil genius bit sticks with one of us, and somehow, it’s the rocket scientist that you’re still kind of hoping for and why is that not emerging? So yeah, either we are reading news from very different sources, or maybe a brand, even a personal brand, for that matter it’s just a perception, I guess, that we hold in other people’s minds. So let’s discuss that you know, if the big guys are messing it up and we don’t really know what to expect from them, then what hope to the little ones I have, like, where do we go?

Subha: Yeah, let’s figure it out. What is staying on brand mean, if you haven’t yet figured out your personal brand?

Hasita: Welcome to the damn good marketing podcast. In today’s episode, we are going to be talking about personal brands, and whether they are similar to or different from company brands. And what is step one really in building a good personal brand, because like we just said, you’re out there, we’re all out there so might as well take charge of it and build something meaningful from it, right?

Subha: Yeah, yeah. So true, whether we like it or not. And I think we all experience it at work, at home family with friends. There’s already a personal brand that exists for each of us in the circles that we live in and move in. And it’s maybe unnamed, it’s not really you know, you don’t know what it’s called, but you still exist, you’re surrounded by that branding. So in that context, what is personal branding? And why do I have to even do anything? I just have to be me, right?

Hasita: I think you better be doing something about the personal brand. I mean, given that your LinkedIn profile is already out there, and you’re probably featured in some PR pieces, or maybe there’s a college editorial just lurking around from a decade ago, popping up in internet searches. None of us today, I think, have the luxury of not taking charge of that anymore, because by choice or by default, we live very public lives. So yeah, you better think that there’s something to be done about building a personal brand.

Subha: Yeah, I guess it comes down to really taking charge of it because the perception is already getting built out there and there’s a way in which folks are seeing you. So why don’t you kind of drive that narrative, right?

Hasita: Let me just Google up our names today, you know, you just take a look at the top 10 search results that appear. And you will be surprised by what you find when I look my name up, there’s this one Ghost Twitter profile that I used a long time ago for a very interesting cause, which we’ll discuss some other time. But I’ve done nothing else. I think for the last six, seven years, it’s just been lying dormant. It’s got a very cute picture of me and my daughter, which I don’t really think I want to be showing the world at this point in time. So might as well take charge of it. I mean, I’m not yet figured out how to delete my Twitter account but I might as well do that. And I might as well decide what will be the top three or four search results that show up when someone looks for me.

Subha: Makes sense. As you said, even when I searched myself, there’s a very old pic that comes up from some article in an online magazine, of me and my girls, and I don’t want that out there that has very little to do with the brand that I am wanting to be. So let’s kind of get with the program and get into that bit of storytelling, that narrative that is finally that’s useful to each of us. I mean, we’re trying to break through the clutter. So let’s get a bit selfish. Is that what I’m hearing?

Hasita: Definitely. I mean, if you’re going to go to the effort of building something, then it has to mean something back, and lots of people do reach out to us and say that I know for a fact that my investors are looking me up. I know for a fact that my employees, my potential hires are all looking me up. So how do I put myself out there in a way that’s meaningful and relevant to them? Because I do want to succeed, like, why should my presence matter to an investor I hope that they will invest in my startup or my company.

So yeah, I mean, when it’s done right, I think a brand is such a powerful way to create that difference in somebody’s mind to make an impact even before you’ve met them. If there are 1000 or 2000 people out there doing something in a similar domain, then how do I know who I trust, I think just building that brand, being very authentic and very mindful about it, can actually help us stand out a little bit more.

Subha: Very, very true. And I think in the context of marketing and running a successful business, or, for that matter, having a successful career in whichever field that you’re in everywhere, the stakes are high, you need to be your best, have good sales numbers, you want to attract the best talent. And so a lot of it is about your reputation in the market, which comes from the founder and the founder’s brand. And right now, there’s so much happening suddenly, in the skincare market. I just had a random thought this morning, as it is, I was seeing that Priyanka Chopra came into the country, India is big news nowadays, but anyway, launched a skincare brand of her own, and then very quietly Deepika Padukone launched her brand, suspiciously around the same time.

And this morning, I was listening to Victoria Beckham on Dax, which I highly recommend. I mean, I know nothing about her. And then she goes on about her skincare range, and I’m thinking like, so much of the person’s personal brand impacts that business which they’ve started, right? It tells you a little bit about what’s that price range, whether is it a premium item, is it a luxury item, who are you more curious about, and whom you want to kind of say, Hey, I tried their brand because they put something extra would I have the same reaction to I don’t know, like Janhvi Kapoor’s lipstick range or a Rakhi Sawant skincare I wouldn’t personally but yeah.

Hasita: And the funny thing is I would actually probably buy Janhvi Kapoor skin care. I mean, I know that she started out being the girl who landed opportunities for no good reason, except that she was a producer’s daughter, and got on the nepotism bandwagon. And therefore, even if she failed, the first couple of times, the very fact that she got more chances was proof that she was being protected by a larger Bollywood nepotism Mafia, so to speak.

But I think over a period of time, she’s really intentionally turned that around so much I feel because I have watched a few of her interviews, and she is, I think, actively doing more of those deep dive interviews. 20, 30 minutes long, you see the nuance layer of somebody who’s, I mean, essentially, a very young person who’s lost a celebrity parent, in the public eye, and now she’s trying to move past it in a graceful manner as possible, you see that the film choices she’s making are not very conventional.

So she’s been very cognizant of the perception that she had, and I think she’s taken charge of it does such a brilliant example of personal branding in my mind, that she spun it around in whatever capacity that she could, you know, funnily enough, while we discuss this, we are also talking about the small guy, like how many of our families really know what we do? If we had to ask them, hey, what do you think I do? Or what answers do you think could really come up? Right?

Subha: No, that’s so true. I mean, like, look at you, like, there’s so much about you, that let’s say, Marvel related, you write a lot about Marvel. And that’s something about your brand, but your brand is not that, hey, I’m a Marvel fan. But it’s that okay, I take this thing, which means a lot to me and I take a very nuanced philosophical, and sometimes even advisor to Marvel, like, Hey, this is what you guys should do. And when you’re consistent with that, then the expectation is also that you are not only a song-and-dance Marvel fan.

Hasita: You’re right, like it’s a very therapeutic thing for me to kind of unearth some of the layers and nuances of some of the movies and the universes that they create. So in many ways, it is an extension of who I am. And I think it’s great that you brought it up, because it’s not a thing that I’m putting on in an effort to be more relatable, it’s not external at all, right? If I was the only person alive on the planet tomorrow, I think I would still be a Marvel fan. And I feel that authenticity has to become the core of a good personal brand in my mind. Because otherwise, you know, you build it, especially in a digital context, you say several things, and then people meet you, and it’s quite likely that they will meet someone completely different from what they knew to be you as a digital entity.

Subha: And this thing about authentic and being true, it’s a huge burden that sometimes it feels like we’re placing on ourselves that kind of consistently reminding ourselves to be authentic because if you’re authentic, you shouldn’t need to remind ourselves, but yeah, like what you’re saying is right, that if you are going to control the narrative, then you can make sure that the narrative works for you that it’s about things that you do and that you care about and that you genuinely want to be known for or talking about. So truly personal in terms of branding.

Hasita: True, true. In fact, I did try to bring and that’s been a bit of a failed attempt in that sense. I’ve tried to bring the Marvel side of things to my LinkedIn presence as well, which is where I spend a significant amount of time. But somewhere, I also realised that I’m not ready for it, in the sense that I think maybe authenticity is often confused with honesty and truth. But maybe it’s just an acceptance of their true selves like maybe the thoughts I have are not suitable for a medium or a platform like LinkedIn, or at least I carry the perception that they are not suitable for a medium like LinkedIn.

And just being aware of that, in a way, has allowed me to be a little easier about it. So I think that’s where, you know, when you have so many layers and nuances to being human, and I think that’s true for all of us, you need to also accept that not everything has to be out there, it’s okay to have a few things out there in a manner that feels comfortable to you and that’s more than enough, sometimes.

Subha: Interesting. And, you know, all of this is making me think that when it is such a strong kind of presence, the personal brand, and it really comes from who you are as a person and what you’re able to, in a way sustain and truly put out there and in a very, very consistent manner, then what really is a company because many times it’s not just one person, it’s a set of founders, and each one comes with their own personal brand attributes and some of them could clash with each other.

Hasita: Without reining in that beast it could run in any number of directions, and you don’t want it to go to a place where it starts to cause you a little bit of trouble, and we’ve seen this with Byju’s recently Subha, wherein on the one hand, there was news about people being laid off, and if it’s not a great place to be, and one of the founders had actually come out and said, I feel like I’m losing Byju’s himself, which is a very profound thing to say.

Now, the next day, you can’t then have a co-founder who’s celebrating the news of signing a famous footballer. And somehow you’re left to wonder, are these people running their content calendars themselves, or is there someone else in charge of it in some ways, because these two are very dissonant messages and shouldn’t have gone out at the same time? That’s where I think it’s so important to dissociate the company brand, from the individuals as well. Like it’s okay for all of them to tie together as all rivers would eventually flow into the sea if I could be very philosophical about it.

But it’s okay to not let that overlap be significant as well. In fact, we’re actually working with a team of four co-founders, and all of them have several different personality attributes. Even their sense of humor, while it resonates with each other is not the same. So it’s okay for your brand, then to not flow into the context of a company like you know, vegan meat is such a big thing in today’s day and age, including cricketers, everybody’s kind of endorsing it.

And I know certain meat brands where the founders are vegetarian and they’ve always been. But the messaging that the brand has put out to the world, of course, is like vegan meat is a great alternative to non-vegan meat you know, the one that comes from animals and somewhere my question is, how do you know like, you’ve always been vegetarian, but I see where they are coming from in that the narrative is not for themselves, it’s not born of them. It is what has to be sold in order to communicate to a customer I would say and I think it’s perfectly fine.

Subha: It’s a lot of food for thought because you’re right, you have to somewhere disassociate the company, but also it has to align with what you believe to be true or right or important. I worked with a couple of founders who are very, very genuine and wholeheartedly in the space of sustainable products, be it toys or books, or clothing. And as individuals, I know that they truly believe in it. They believe in running their business through sustainable practices, which could mean so many things, you know, paying your vendor or time, making sure that the vendor has access to the materials that you need, etc.

But they are never going to be personally, the kind of in-your-face advocates of hey, did you call out a Starbucks because it has plastic straws, or did you segregate your trash today and they’re not going to do that but through them and in a way contributing to the company brand the company stands on its own in its sustainability initiatives. Even the stuff that they make, a lot of it is for kids. You wouldn’t look at them and say these are very, kind of crazy, funny, childish. I won’t say they’re non-fun, but they’re not the song-and-dance fun type of folks, serious about their business and because of that, they don’t have to be bubbly, and jumpy and chirpy all the time.

Hasita: And that’s such a beautiful example of how you can really separate yourself from the brand like there is an alignment that’s why you started what you did, but it’s not necessary for you to be also the funniest person in the room to also be the face of the brand in that sense. And that’s again, a very conscious choice because you know that at some point, it’s going to become a bigger team, you know that there are going to be more people who will bring their own personality into it. And, you know, it’s not always easy, because every company is personal, right? You’ve put sweat and blood into it, and you’re probably going to want to leave some of your influence some of your impact behind. But that’s such a nice and mature choice to make.

Also to say that, my company is this, and it can be represented this way and it’s okay for me to not put myself out there in the same way. Like I’ll find parallel ways, I’ll find ways to show that I’m serious about scaling this business, I’m serious about doing what I do. And the fun is being had in the product or the fun is being had as a product of the community that I have managed to build. So yeah, I mean, it sounds a lot complicated, but then I think all of us would have made those choices at some point in time in terms of how we put ourselves out there. I mean, Subha you and I have also made those choices on some level, in terms of how we run our businesses and this podcast.

Subha: Very true. I mean, and the choice bet, two of us met somebody last week, who we were talking to her in the context of her company and how it came about, and what are the things that she believes in what she represents. And I think it was very, very bold, and very honest of her to say that, Hey, I am a woman who has built a company. But that does mean that I need to be the evangelist for women entrepreneurs and make that a part of my brand forcefully. And I think that’s important that one, we do have a choice. So all we’re saying is that it’s about taking some charge of that narrative, yes the outsiders are always going to have their own perceptions, that’s throughout the world, and you can’t define or control 100% of it. But you can be consistent in what you put out there.

Hasita: I liked what you said about perceptions because in net, net, we are all processing the world through the filter that is in our mind and our perceived experiences. And if I’m going to be a public persona, then I will have to accept the fact that people will make judgments. So that’s where I think we need to then choose and apply a filter saying, firstly, like we said earlier, what are the three, four things that I’m comfortable discussing. We don’t have to claim something that’s not our own.

And then is what I’m saying is relevant to another person, is the sharing of my experience, going to enrich somebody else’s life because we all have stories. But I think by applying that little filter of saying, how can I turn this narrative around to be helpful to another person, and then that could be in a personal context, it could be in a professional context, it could just be the one thing that makes a difference to somebody somewhere and that I would say, is a successful personal brand built right there.

Subha: You know, thinking about what is valuable to my audience immediately made me think of Reese Witherspoon, and both of us devour a lot of books, and many of them nowadays have the kind of Reese book club stamp on them, right? And this came out of nowhere, so like we woke up and one day, and suddenly, there was an Instagram handle, and suddenly there were some very, very pretty images of book covers. And we said, oh, Reese is saying, read this, so let’s try it.

But I think for her also like, our podcast, it was the pandemic project to reach out to her audience and say that, maybe it’s a bit of rebranding that, you know me as the Legally Blonde girl, and that has defined me for a long time, but I do have the other interests and I have very powerful, or rather, my recommendation will hold a lot of power so let me make good use of it. And I love the way that she has built that community by simply saying that, hey, I have read this, I genuinely enjoyed it and I think I know my audience, I know the community that’s following me and hence I think you guys will enjoy it too. And that has worked.

And so that belief has gotten stronger, that community has gotten stronger and she’s using that power brilliantly like she’s producing movies with solid women leads, she’s sold that company for a huge amount and really I don’t know if so much of rebranded, but I think yes, she’s moved on from just an actress to a businesswoman, and so much more, you know, a producer, business women, etc and a simple thing like the Reese Book Club has been part of that transition.

Hasita: True and that’s the harness that we are kind of talking about when we talk about reining in the personal brand, like when you harness it, it’s got a power of its own. And she was, you know, by virtue of being a celebrity in a position to be able to maybe shine a light on some of the others who may not have otherwise found the same kind of fame that they did. Now, she’s kind of helping them do their book-to-screen adaptations.

So you see that a lot of good is going around, you know, it’s a community, like you said, built around a shared love for stories, good stories, stories that were discovered, probably during the downtime that she had. But now today’s it has become a viable business and that’s because there was that clear anchor in terms of, okay, this is who I am and this is how I think I can be helpful to the millions of people out there who are either following my work or writing something. And there we are, I think we can all create those success stories on various levels.

Subha: So true, so true. And I think even this podcast has helped us think about what our brand is in so many ways.

Hasita: Every day, I would say. Every day, we come back to it, and we have some thoughts about who we are on the podcast. Yeah. Now it’s time for the much-awaited topic ads.

Subha: I think personal branding I don’t know from time immemorial, it’s something that anyone and everyone knows that it’s important that there is the need for a personal brand, a founder brand, a company brand. And there are many different ways in which it’s proven its value over time, but I think, it’s the execution crisis, right? How do I make that happen? What are some of those do’s and don’ts today more than ever, the don’ts, you know, you can’t wipe it off the internet, then you’re stuck with it for the next God knows how many years.

Hasita: Yeah, no, the reason I laugh is that I think we are also very much on the road to figuring it out, and I don’t know to what extent we have any better advice. But I do think let’s draw from what’s worked for us. I mean, as you said, I don’t want to be known for something that I’m not for decades into the future. So when that’s the case, I think, especially in today’s times, you know, the world is going through war and recession, and there are so many descendants, sometimes you go on LinkedIn, and you think, how is this person living on a different planet, whereas everybody else seems to have figured out like, I think it happened, maybe not to the personal brand level, but it happened with the company recently, a hiring firm job search firm, if I would call it that, that went through a rebrand. And they just ran one of the most tone-deaf campaigns in terms of changing their name.

So they got some 100 of their employees to post on LinkedIn saying that they are being let go from this company that they were part of for so long and that they’re very excited because the future involves the new company’s name. And somehow the tone-deafness of that is kind of lost on them clearly, but it’s not lost on anyone else. Because people are actually getting laid off in the real world, and this is a hiring company, you would think that this was an opportunity to do some good, and instead, they’ve just turned it into a marketing gimmick, so to speak. But really, it’s not a black box, right? Like as much as we have these horrendous examples of how things can go wrong it’s not that we’re standing on a stage and we are screaming, and absolutely anybody and their uncle is listening. Because in some ways, our networks are limited by the number of people that we know and the number of people that they know.

So if I had to really harness I think I would just do two things, like, one is I would look at my own network. Who are the people that I’m working with, who are the people that I’m already kind of influencing in some way, either by being the boss or a team lead, or even just an employee who is full of ideas, who are the people that I talk to outside of my work as well like, who are the friends, why are they sticking to me, and this is especially important because a lot of big deals and transactions are not happening through traditional channels and emails and formal meetings anymore, right? Like these are all people who know each other, they’re checking with each other. In fact, just yesterday, I overheard a conversation where a VC was checking with another VC whether a certain idea was a scam or whether it was reality. In fact, it was happening over a very casual drink session. So one of the many side effects of being in Bangalore is that even like coffee table chat is of this nature, but I think, looking at those conversations, there is some value, I think, in knowing what we are saying and to whom I think. And that’s, I would say, a great place to start, frankly.

Subha: And I think it’s a great advantage. I was just reading the Seinfeld book, coffee table book, if you may and that’s one of the things he and the other comedians discuss that in a way in their times, it was the 70s or 80s, etc., you played in a room and you didn’t know who was in the room. So you had to cater to a very wide audience. But he says today, maybe some of the folks have it easier because thanks to algorithms and social media, and various other tools and tricks, you can know very well who your audience is and you can keep growing that kind of audience. So, you can build that community, like, just going back like Reese can build that community of book lovers or story lovers, and then you know exactly who you’re talking to. So you can present yourself and your company in a way that will, like you said earlier, add value to that group and appeal to that group.

Hasita: True and which is really where the second aspect of it all comes in because it also may be very easy today to be held hostage by the numbers and the metrics and the engagement do people like me, and it’s measured in the form of I mean, numbers don’t lie, the saying, but data can be interpreted in so many different ways. So while we do build an audience, I think it’s important to rein in the temptation to say, Okay, I tried this once, or I tried this twice, and nobody seems to be liking it because I think we are seeing way too much content. It’s only blown up so much more during the pandemic, I say that with a little bit of self-awareness in the sense that a lot of what we do are also pandemic projects.

But knowing that that’s the case, maybe I’m going to have to repeat that message five or six times, maybe even more, if it’s people that I don’t know. So it’s not just about putting myself out there. And we do have a success story of somebody who’s consistently been putting themselves out there for the last three, four months, we’ve been helping them build their founder brand and it’s just been that, like, it could have been so easy for them to turn around at month one or month two and say, Hey, this is not working, but they kept it in, and now after four months, five months of repeating the same message over and over again, it’s really beginning to work for them. So two things really one look at the network and two I think give it time, don’t get lost in the numbers. Let the numbers guide you in terms of what to do, but they are not the end goal. A lot of times there’s a deeper story there.

Subha: Yeah, I think that’s important because the numbers, and then we talk about it so often, the numbers don’t tell you the kind of I don’t know the collateral impact that some of this work that you do has. Like, you could have 10,000 followers, or you could have five people reach out to you and give you a valuable new business.

Hasita: Like say for example, just as we were kind of getting a little flustered about the podcast listenership Navya Naveli Nanda went out and started her own podcast, and we couldn’t help but think all sharks like, if a celebrity with a following is already going to be doing this, then where do I begin? The other day, I saw Luke Coutinho on LinkedIn. I’m not sure what he’s up to. We have seen cricketers suddenly become quite active on LinkedIn and you’re like, please leave something for the underdog sometimes. And that’s why I can’t look at say Sunil Shetty’s engagement and feel bad that I don’t have the same kind of leverage, and it’s such an insecure, I’m not going to be helping myself doing that.

Subha: You know, we’ve kind of poked a bit of fun at it, saying, why is Sunil Shetty on LinkedIn? And actually, it is just kind of coming to me now that if he wants to rebrand himself as let’s say, a serious investor, looking for startups, somebody who knows business, who understands leadership, and actually a lot of it, he has done right, he’s run very successful restaurants, etc. He’s not just a Bollywood actor, but for him to, in a way, rebrand or put that brand out there is a part of that process so that execution, which we’ve been talking about, is perhaps coming to LinkedIn and telling his business side stories.

Hasita: That is so true I would not have known that he was a successful entrepreneur, if not for the fact that he’d started posting on LinkedIn. And I hope more power to him and more power to all of us as well. It’s really not a race in the sense that I think we are all at different points in that journey. And investing in it will pay off. It’s just about I think tempering certain expectations sometimes, and knowing that we didn’t start out as a Bollywood Celebrity. So we have to make peace with the fact that until yesterday, we were an unknown entity, and it’s fine. And I think that’s the key takeaway if there was one.

Subha: So true.

Hasita: Thank you so much for tuning in to today’s episode about personal branding. Where do you begin, right, and is there a level zero? What is step one, and what is step two? And we genuinely hope that you found the information useful here. And if you have any questions, please do reach out to us on LinkedIn, our profile links are in the show notes. Don’t forget to give our podcasts a follow. We really appreciate all the love that you send our way. Thank you.

Subha: Bye.