S4E8 | Dealing With Bad Bosses

How do you know when a ‘bad’ boss is really just someone with a different working style – and how do you align your styles for better outcomes? And what do you do when the relationship is truly toxic?

Discussion Topics: Dealing with bad bosses

• It’s quite common to have a bad boss.
• Recognise your workplace behaviour patterns.
• Is it a bad boss or an incompatible work style?
• How to adapt without giving up your own personality.
• How to combat office politics.
• How to tell when it’s a bad relationship vs a toxic one.
• There’s merit in investing time to fix a relationship.

Transcript: Dealing with bad bosses

Subha: Welcome to another episode of Small Talk with Rainkraft podcast! Whenever there are these discussions on hey, I think I have a terrible boss, it’s worthwhile to take a step back and say, why are they terrible? Is this really a situation of a bad boss? Or is it just a pure and simple clash of working styles?

Hasita: Subha, I’m actually struggling with a certain client of mine before you say what’s new. Because here the struggle is, I feel like sometimes, this person and I are very different individuals. And somehow what I’m saying and what’s going through is just completely Greek and Latin. And I’m really struggling because I want to do the work. But somewhere, I don’t feel like doing it with this person. Am I just stuck in some kind of bad workplace relationship? Or is there any way to salvage this, because like I said, I really want to do the work but the person is becoming a bit of an issue?

Subha: That, I think a very common workplace dilemma. And you have a bit of an advantage that there are clients, so you can actually choose to leave the relationship. But so many people struggle with a bad boss. And in which case, you’re in a way stuck, like either you have to move to a different role, or the boss has to get promoted, they have to move up so they get away from you or you have to actually leave because of that individual, which hopefully should be the last resort, especially if you’re in another wise at a good place, doing good work. So yeah, definitely, let’s spend some time talking about what to do when you have difficult workplace relationships especially a boss or a client who has that little bit of authority over you in a way.

Hasita: Yeah, because, you know, finally, your outcome is dependent on their cooperation to a large extent, and that’s true of client-side bosses finally, that’s what it is. Yes, being noticed, and being appreciated for what you’re putting in is a huge factor. But finally, for you to do your job, well, you need to collaborate, you need to interact with them. And I think for me, especially in this context, the problem is that I want to get things done, I really like to move. But sometimes I feel like I’m not being allowed to do that. Because I’m spending so much time deliberating over things that I wouldn’t say they’re obvious, I see the contribution that they are kind of making to the process. But sometimes I feel like all we’re doing is talking, and it doesn’t really agree with me.

Subha: Yeah, you know, so many stories of bosses that call you into their cabin, and then just talk endlessly. And when you have to go back and do the real work, and you really got nothing out of that meeting or that interaction I hear that so often, unfortunately. But that’s a good place to start because it comes down to something very fundamental or core to each of us, which is what are our workplace behavior patterns, and that differs so much from individual to individual, the way we work or how we like to get things done, or you’re given a task or you’re given a project, how do you really attack it, what are the ways in which you process information or learning or execution, you know, there’s just such a variety there.

Interestingly, that kind of boils down to about five behavior types. And it’s an exercise that I like to do with senior leaders, who are figuring out how to manage their teams better, is to first gain self-awareness about how you are at the workplace. And it’s a simple inventory called drivers. And it tells you am I, somebody who likes to hurry up through things.

Hasita: Yeah, I think we all know that to be true.

Subha: Right, so for example, somebody who is always moving from one task to the other, and is trying to fit 20 things into a day, or am I somebody who’s looking for perfection in everything that I do? So, such folks struggle to get out that first draft because it’s never good enough, or am I, somebody who finds it extremely difficult to ask for help? I feel like I should be the strong one. I should be the one who knows all the answers.

And I shouldn’t need to ask somebody else for help. And so it takes me maybe longer or I don’t give the best output, or am I someone who’s always just trying, like, hey, maybe if I just try it one other way, it will be better. Maybe if I try it that way, and this way, you know, one of these ways will be the best so, I’m not really closing the loop because I’m forever trying. And the fifth one is those who are just trying to please others and putting themselves last.

So even if you do a good job, maybe it’s just taken everything out of you. because you’ve done it from the angle of just making sure that others are taken care of, and you’ve kind of forgotten about yourself. So, whenever there are these discussions on, hey, I think I have a terrible boss, it’s worthwhile to take a step back and say, why is he or she, why are they terrible? Because there’s a difference between a bad boss and a toxic boss, or colleague or peer or whatever. But spending some time to first think about, is this really a situation of a bad boss or is just a pure and simple clash of working styles.

Hasita: No, you’re right, I think, in my infinite wisdom gained over, having grown up, which I think we all do, I have also come to realize, finally, that there is value in each of these five personalities that you have discussed, like, I tend very heavily towards execution, I’m a doer of things. But I see the benefit of somebody who tempers that through the trying of things so through wanting things to be perfect.

And I think especially in this use case, that’s what and it’s so clear to me now is that the other person that I’m trying to kind of work with is a trying individual in the sense that they like to try multiple things and see what clicks.

So somewhere I feel like already I’m so paranoid about finishing things and then that onus of finishing it has now been doubled because I have to hold myself accountable, and I have to hold somebody else accountable as well. And somewhere, you know, we schedule, these calls, and one hour turns into one and a half hours, and I see my energy dipping every two minutes, I’m just trying to finish that Zoom call and move on. And I have to limit it to once a week. And it just seems like a lot of pressure on my time and resources.

Subha: No, the working style clash is very real. I had a coachee, one who, you know, felt like they just weren’t being seen or heard by their boss. And it was also coupled with the complexity of him being here and the boss being on-site or overseas. And it’s just always a telephone conversation. So this was before, Zoom became such a big thing that you kind of at least could see each other and see some bit of body language.

But he used to say that every time I go for a review meeting, and we are different business heads, we are giving our reviews, and she just doesn’t seem to be listening or maybe she doesn’t like what I’m saying or how I’m saying it. But I feel like I have so much to say, and I’ve gone prepared and I’ve got this long list, and I’m going at it one by one and she’s just in such a hurry and that was a huge sign that she’s not in this conversation for the details.

If you look at it, from her point of view, she’s got five business heads, and she’s got 45 minutes, and she literally needs the executive summary. And so maybe it would serve you well to say, Hey, these are the five things that I want to quickly give you updates on 1 2 3 4 5. And I’ll follow it up with a slightly more detailed email. And he just tried that. And he said I stopped getting anxious on those calls. And I realized my voice and my tone, everything used to fall after the first couple of minutes, because I was telling myself, she doesn’t like you, she’s not listening to you.

Hasita: It is very easy to take it personally. Right?

Subha: Yeah. So that’s very important. You know, just spend a little time trying to understand who you are and who that boss or colleague is. And we all have a pattern they’ve set, it’s not going to change overnight. Like, just because she finds that there’s a team member who wants to give her a ton of detail, it’s not going to change.

Hasita: How she listens. I mean, finally, net-net adaptability the fact is that if the call is taking one and a half hour, then the onus is also on me to say, Hey, today, we will be discussing 1 2 3, and 4 5 6 can probably be so you decide what are the and I think we’ve spoken about this in managing the manager also. Like sometimes I think we are deferring to that persona of someone who’s trying to please the other individual first of all, fair enough, it’s completely a natural reaction. And also, therefore look to them for feedback on how we should be behaving or what we should be doing. But maybe it’s really about the work output itself, and how I package it, so to speak.

Subha: And like you said, reading the room itself is a huge skill. What is the other person’s motivation for being in that conversation, whether they’re a client or whether they’re even a team member or a subordinate try and constantly keep an eye on why are they in that conversation, have they mentally exited why, how do I bring them back.

For example, you may have called your team members to have a very exploratory kind of brainstorming kind of discussion. And if you haven’t communicated that, clearly, for your team member, it could be like, on a Thursday evening, I’m in this room, shooting out random ideas. And this could go on forever. And this boss of mine has no clue what he or she wants, and why am I always stuck with such people and you’re not even getting their best output, because they’ve tuned out, they feel this has no purpose.

So really making sure that you read the room, and you are able to communicate that, hey, guys, this is why we’re here. And this is my agenda. And there’ll be some other meetings where I’m going to be very, very focused on status updates, execution, where are we and it’s going to be very database driven, etc. I think that’s important that you kind of figure out each other’s motivation.

So, yes, every client, every boss, and every colleague will have bad moments, but what are their patterns, and where do I also need to make that little bit of change, and sometimes it helps to call it out to the other person also that Hey, I work this way.

Hasita: Or even just to say, I have a longer update today. And therefore, I need you to be there for me or the update that I have is not something I managed to figure out on my own, therefore, I need you to be involved, because the net-net, that’s what right? Do you want to find that synergy I mean, most of us, like the work we do sometimes it’s just about finding that rhythm, or sometimes we like the other people we work with and it could just be a quantum of one or two people with whom you’re kind of trying to figure that rhythm out?

But I also want to talk to you about bad peers or team members. And I think for most of us, that qualifies as people who are constantly one-upping you for the express purpose of being seen as the better individual. It’s not a competence thing. But it’s more of games that people play in the context of professional work. So how do you, you know, especially if it’s a new system, and you’ve just found yourself there, and somebody else is taking credit for your work is that bad? Or is that toxic? And how do you kind of get out of those loops?

Subha: No, that’s I think very real, in this competitive environment where you don’t want to be the person holding any kind of pink piece of paper, and you’re making sure that the system knows what you’re doing, and how much effort and work you’ve put in. But what I like about the generation at work that I’m seeing now is that more and more individuals are feeling empowered to call it out. And I think that’s very important. That’s something that we didn’t do so much in the workplace 10, 15 years back, where we said, hey, the boss is the authority or someone who is senior to me by age, there was a huge way to set the hierarchy. Today, the founder is probably 10 years younger than you.

Hasita: Yeah, and it just makes it that much more complicated as well, right?

Subha: Yeah. So you have to say, Okay, I’m not going to take this personally. And I’m not going to hence be a bad employee, because the environment is not supporting me. But to assess the situation, and have very simple, clear conversations with the people involved. Think it through structure it, don’t rush into it with a hot head, like don’t rush into it in that moment where you feel slighted or where you feel betrayed, or you feel like they needed to share the credit, but they didn’t. But plan for it call for that conversation that, hey, I’d like to just have 10 minutes of your time to talk about what happened in the meeting last week, and think through what you want to say, what is the problem you’re going to present, what do you see some options for the two of you, and also keep some space for emotions, you are a person.

Hasita: I was just going to say that because it’s so hard to not be hot-headed in situations like this. You did this? How dare you not? And I know, that’s the feeling that we are kind of trying to get out. But maybe that’s not the most productive.

Subha: Correct, so then keep space for those emotions by trying to think through how am I going to articulate this so to say, hey, when that happened, I felt very hurt. I didn’t expect it from you. I thought we had the understanding that we both work so try and articulate it as best that you can. And it will get emotional at some point. So walk away when that happens, but plan for that conversation and call it out because I think we don’t need to stick to unnecessary hierarchies or unnecessary feelings of obligation that hey, that person was in this company before me and hence this or, you know, they’re a client from heaven and hence I have to put up with X, Y, Z, etc. Sometimes that just clears the air that I didn’t realize I was doing that.

Hasita: Or maybe it may just stop repeating the next time around because the awareness has kind of made its way. I do also want to talk to you about the toxicity that we spoke about earlier. And this is coming from a very sort of real-world space of having heard stories of people who felt physically even abused in the context of a workplace. There are people who felt like they are constantly criticized for mistakes that they didn’t make. Where do you really know which is which? Because, sure, I mean, if it’s just a bad working relationship, maybe there’s hope. But if it’s affecting your confidence, and if it’s affecting who you are, and the kind of work you put out there, then that’s a real problem, right?

Subha: Very true. I think you should not need to shove it under the carpet of hey, that person is having a difficult day and I have to put up with it. I mean, that can’t be the pattern again and again. So if you feel that you are being bullied, if you feel that you’re always the target in a group setting, and if you feel that the other person is always undermining you in their words, I bet you didn’t figure it out, or I bet you haven’t hit your numbers or I bet you’re lagging behind.

And you know, that kind of really, truly being the bully in the room then first, I think, acknowledge that it’s okay to feel that way. Such people are real, unfortunately. And then go about saying, Okay, is it something that I can even attempt to solve, speak to a couple of trusted co-workers and say, Hey, do you feel this way? Or have you seen what happens when others bring this up? Is it okay? Is it safe to have a conversation with this individual about this?

Hasita: Sometimes even the slights and asides that get thrown will give us so much context, right? Oh, the monster is coming. Quite indicative of.

Subha: And after you have those conversations with people you trust, and then you’d make a genuine attempt to have a professional conversation with that individual also, if you’re able to, and say, Hey, I don’t like how I’m talked to, or I’d like to know where that’s coming from, what have I done to get that kind of treatment, and if that also doesn’t meet with a positive response, or you see that they’re retaliating even more, then it’s time to make some hard calls because I don’t think anyone should put themselves through that kind of a work environment and no matter what that takes a toll on your professional life and your personal life.

And when it becomes dysfunctional, where that’s kind of all that you’re thinking about, and you don’t want to get up and go to work, and you don’t want to be in the same room as that person and you just don’t want to do anything for them, then it’s really time to reevaluate, why am I here.

Hasita: It’s never easy like you said, but I think we all, at some point, do encounter people either in proximity or via somebody else. And what do you do, finally, you have to preserve your own sanity. And that’s where it really comes down to. But yeah, I think in all other use cases, definitely, it’s worth asking what else can I probably try before I do.

Subha: No, definitely. I think there is merit in investing a little bit of effort in trying to fix the situation, sometimes, maybe it’s just a huge misunderstanding, or you’ve not understood each other. Rather than a misunderstanding maybe you’ve just not understood each other’s styles, and preferences, and maybe nobody’s ever called them out.

Hasita: Also, you may have gone into the system wanting one thing like you expect it to be mentored. But that’s not happening, or you think it’s not happening because it not happening actively. So some of those expectations. I mean, we may not have called them out, but they exist. I came into this because I wanted to learn, and no one’s teaching me. So those expectations have to be met and managed.

Subha: And there’s a lot of power in conversation. So when you’re not feeling extremely emotionally charged, if you can plan for and at least attempt to have a well-structured conversation now if that also fails very badly, then you know that, okay, I have to think about alternatives.

Hasita: I’m taking away a lot. And I think it’s time to consider certain healthy boundaries around my time and like the person that I’m working with because I know they are also finally trying to work towards the same goal that I am. And as long as that’s the case, I think, other stuff I still feel like can be worked out. Thank you.

Subha: It’s just about calling it out, right say, Hey, I’m coming into this as your equal, and I understand that you’ve hired me and you’ve engaged me as a professional to do something. But in my mind, I’m coming into this as an equal and I’d like to see that in our engagement and in our interactions, and maybe it’ll just put them in their place.

Hasita: Maybe.

Subha: Good luck. Waiting to hear how that goes.

Hasita: Yeah me too I’m also here to find out.

Subha: And wishing all of you with not so great colleagues, bosses working relationships so hope you can sort it out too with some of the tips we’ve talked about today. Thanks and bye.