S5E10 – Career Lift-Off: Best Moments from Small Talk in 2023

Hey, Smalltalkers! As we wrap up 2023 on ‘Smalltalk with Rainkraft Career Lifting Conversations,’ we’ve delved into intentional conversations about careers, transitions, and the ever-evolving workplace. From discussing layoffs to embracing failure, comfort zones, and practical tips, we’ve covered it all. As we step into 2024, I hope these insights on crisis management, mentorship, and job search strategies serve you well. Thank you for hanging out with us and reliving the best of Season 5. Stay tuned for more engaging conversations and valuable insights. Keep Small talking!

Discussion Topics: Career Lift-Off

• Intro
• How to face a crossroad in your career?
• Why do you need a mentor?
• The most important thing in a crisis – identifying the person who’ll take charge
• Crisis communication is not saying everything
• WIIFM – what’s in it for me?
• How to meet the interests of everyone in a meeting?
• Fear is a tough emotion, fear of failure is even tougher
• Having a group to give you feedback is the way to soften the blow of failures
• What’s the new trend of coffee badging?
• When is the right time to change your career?
• Wrap up

Transcript: Career Lift-Off

Subha Chandrasekaran: ​Hey, Smalltalkers! Thank you for all the love you’ve showered on Smalltalk with Rainkraft Career Lifting Conversations. In 2023, we’ve tried to be quite intentional, keeping the focus on careers, career transitions, workplaces, The hybrid environment that we’re all still coming to terms with.

And so we’ve addressed challenges that today’s workplace brings for each of us. Whether we’re running a business, managing a team, or trying to grow something that has to take its own shape and form over the course of time some topics have been difficult. We’ve spoken about layoffs. We’ve spoken about failure and the perspective that it brings to us. We’ve talked about the comfort zone and what it feels like to step out of that. We’ve also touched upon tactical, strategic, and tips and tools that could help you in the day-to-day.

As you get back into work mode in 2024, I hope some of these ideas are useful to you. Crisis management, being a mentor, building a collaborative workplace, and even something as specific as a job search strategy when you’re at mid-career or looking to transition from one kind of role to another. So thank you again for hanging out with us. So let’s just recap Smalltalkers and enjoy the best of season 5 so far. How to face the crossroads in your career?

Subha Chandrasekaran: Have you ever been at a crossroads in your career? Wondering whether it’s time to change paths? I hear this often from mid-career professionals. And even young folks who have started out, but are feeling a bit unsure about the choices that they’ve made.

Usually there’s a trigger, right? So when you start feeling like you need change, you want change or circumstances are pushing you towards change, latch onto it a bit and dig deeper and see where is this coming from. What is it telling you?

What else are you paying attention to? And use that as a starting point to say, now in this context, what am I feeling? What would I like to be doing? What are the skills that I have picked up over the years and not just, functional, don’t just give it functional names, but dig deep into what exactly am I doing here?

If I had to tell a five-year-old, what would I really do in this job? And hence, what are my skill sets and then start looking for people, organisations, and opportunities so give yourself time to. Create that kind of basket of information for yourself, which you will then experiment with. 

Hasita Krishna: I had a very interesting call with an AIML client that we were working with. We’ve been with them for quite some time and this has been an interesting year for their industry. Suddenly, chat GPT came on board, capturing everyone’s imagination.

And I think everyone is feeling the pressure of having to invent something and not always knowing what is the right thing to invent. And that problem is playing out in some very interesting ways, I must say, because we have now decided, or rather somebody has decided at some point in the system, that there exists a need for a proof of concept.

And the funny thing is, we don’t know what proof of what concept. The finance team is already making projections and forecasts. The sales team is already selling something I’m presuming because the marketing team is being asked to sell a product that doesn’t exist.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Over a sustained period, if you demand everything as of yesterday, then, I don’t know, I feel as a team member, I’ll say, tomorrow something else will come up which was wanted as of yesterday.

So let me just chill. Because knowing what kind of culture you have. Created or a part of what kind of work style that you like or enjoy. How is that working goes a long way in trying to break some of these silos? Because if I’m leading a team where they are trying to beat a deadline, I need to now collaborate with another team where because of the nature of their work, they have to get it.

it’s not perfection for the sake of perfection, but it matters. So knowing that, this is when we work together, the silos can break when I can articulate my vision. Why do I need it not as of yesterday, but at least two days from now? How can we have a conversation ? What can you do best in that timeframe?

And then agree on that. If we try to summarise now, there’s some clear stages in this. One is somebody. I Have a need, right? And they’re coming back to the larger group and saying, Hey, these various, these five teams, we now have to fulfil this need. And this is why we’re doing it. This is the vision.

This is the outcome I’m hoping for. So really being the voice that articulates it. And then checking in on each team saying for us to achieve this, what do you need? Because you as a group may function differently and your priority is the way you work the way you need to work may be slightly different.

So what can what do you need and hence as a group? What can we agree on? Because once you’ve agreed, then I think most people would then tend towards sticking to whatever they’ve committed, fair enough. So what can we agree on? Okay. In three days’ time, we’re going to stop calling it a POC first of all, but this is what we’re going to have ready for the client because we want to give them comfort.

Hasita Krishna: And I think one of the key points that I’m also picking up on is don’t wait for somebody else to do it. If the lack of communication is affecting your everyday work, or just how you feel about the work that you’re doing, then speak up. Take charge, at least in the locus that you can control. Why do you need a mentor?

Subha Chandrasekaran: When I joined my first job after B. School, I was assigned somebody to be my buddy, which was just a friendly name for a mentor. I thought that was a very nice gesture and it’s somebody who I’m on and off in touch with even now.

Because it was someone who helped me navigate the early days, helped me just figure out the lay of the land, what’s okay, what’s not okay. And I think that’s something that is not talked about as much, but a very powerful relationship 

Hasita Krishna: If you had to structure it, as a mentor yourself, what would you aim for? 

Subha Chandrasekaran: I think, there’s not too much that the mentor would be structuring. But what I would insist on and, hope that they come with is at least an, a basic set of goals or areas that they want to work on and, some kind of awareness or willing to explore, what’s the strength that they’re bringing to these goals and what’s probably areas where you can help them, right?

That’s fair. So if you come to me and say, Hey, I know how to do the sale, but I seem to be not so confident in how I communicate or, so there’s some awareness. And then you’re able to use your experience to guide them. Solve for that.

One of the kinds of guiding principles of mentorship is useful. It doesn’t solve it, does it? Oh, no. Don’t look to solve the person. But strive to see the potential in them because finally in mentorship, you’re not accountable for the results. You don’t, you’re not their supervisor.

You’re not granting a promotion. Appraising them, neither are they coming to you with those notions. Just that, you were asking me what are the other things, facets of being a mentor. Be that really strong cheerleader. Hey, give it a shot. Yes, it can go wrong. This is how it went wrong for me. The most important thing in a crisis – identifying the person who’ll take charge

Subha Chandrasekaran: in a crisis 99 percent are followers, and the two, three who have also crashed by the wayside, but they want to know whom to listen to.

Hasita Krishna: I think a lot of yes, you’re right, like the freezing response in situations like this comes from not knowing as well.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Who’s going to tell us what to do? Or am I supposed to decide what to do? So if someone says, Hey, this, we follow this person, which doesn’t always have to be the leader of the pack. So if you are as a leader, as a founder, as a team manager, not so comfortable in these situations. Part of your preparation could be identifying the person who will take charge.

Subha Chandrasekaran: How are you telling people that you’ve taken charge or that, hey, it’s okay, we’ve got this, we’ll, it’s not going to be easy, but we’ll figure it out. 

Hasita Krishna: It’s quite interesting, because literally, most of the time, the word crisis is followed by the word PR, right?

Subha Chandrasekaran: So I think, for example, George Bush got a positive PR spin when he was sitting and reading to kindergarten kids and he was told that 9-11 had just happened. And he didn’t panic, he didn’t jump out of his seat, he finished what he was doing.

And that has been quoted many times as, very powerful and, Powerful crisis leadership. Like he did the right thing. Do not freak out. Crisis communication is not saying everything.

Hasita Krishna: I think crisis communication is not just about saying everything. I think so many times, especially when there are people who are in that freeze response, saying too much is a much bigger problem, right? And it causes its own sub fires in different places. 

Subha Chandrasekaran: Especially in family situations. Who all do you tell? How much do you tell? Because suddenly everyone’s panicked and everyone’s got a flight and come over and now you have to tend to them more than the crisis itself. 

Hasita Krishna: Absolutely. 

Subha Chandrasekaran: Crisis leadership is really about that. Clarifying who’s in charge of communicating in a very consistent concise and comprehensive manner. WIIFM – what’s in it for me?

Hasita Krishna: I think the meetings are largely driven, I wouldn’t even say by an agenda, but by the person who thinks it’s important to have a conversation.

Subha Chandrasekaran: in behavioural science, there’s an acronym for everything. So why not this? So it’s generally known as WIFM, right? WIIFM, which just simply stands for what’s in it for me, right? On the surface, it may seem like hey, if everybody is so selfish that they’re coming in only if there’s something in it for them.

And hey, the answer is yes fundamentally, we’re doing something either because we’re going to gain something or we’re going to avoid losing something. Losing face, losing time that could be better spent elsewhere, all of that, right? WIIFM is important because it’s a way to tap into what’s really motivating the other person. How to meet the interests of everyone in a meeting?

Hasita Krishna: Say the meeting organiser or the person who’s bringing together all of these people and everyone could have a different stake in a different agenda. How do you bring them all together in the context of say, whatever group conversation, whether it’s a meeting, whether it’s a brainstorm, a workshop, it could be so many different things. How do you help all of these people stay invested in it for long enough?

Subha Chandrasekaran: No, that’s fair. And there will be situations where it’s a large group and you can’t meet everyone’s interest, right? But I think the first step is to pay attention. What are they interested in? What is motivating them? And it’s an interesting side thought that, see, I can’t motivate you, but I can tap into what already motivates you, I can’t motivate you beyond a point to sit in that room and want to give your bestest of ideas. That you need to walk in with already. Fear is a tough emotion, fear of failure is even tougher

Subha Chandrasekaran: I think fear itself is a tough emotion. Fear of failure is even tougher. But as a coach, I do find myself often saying be kinder to yourself, but these are some of the tools, acknowledging that there is a fear of something and that fear is failure in whatever shape or form it could come seeing what affirmative active statements I can tell myself, what things in the past I can remind myself of, where hey, I have done that before, or I have tried something difficult and succeeded. I am okay with fine, I didn’t get that promotion. Even four years ago, it took six months longer, I survived.

Wasn’t the end of the world or everything Doesn’t have to be perfect? Which I see a lot nowadays because so many more people are changing careers and returning from breaks, putting themselves out into the world in a way that’s very scary. . And so there’s a fear that I won’t succeed. And the opposite of that is not failure. Having a group to give you feedback is the way to soften the blow of failures

Subha Chandrasekaran: When I’m trying to do something new, maybe just look left or right and bounce it off somebody, maybe they’ll have a very different viewpoint that will be helpful. And then as you’re going through the process, have a group that can give you.

Feedback even in your personal life, right? Even when you’re starting out. We both stepped out into new territory for ourselves work wise. And this one, it helped immensely that we had each other and we had others who could say, Hey, this seems to be working. But this doesn’t seem to be your cup of tea.

Do you really want to continue that? And then when something does go wrong, sit down with Yeah. The relevant people and maybe just talk it out or ask the questions of yourself or make them ask the questions to say what didn’t go right. Because I think none of this is, I mean that old cliche, like none of this is failure, right? You have to just pick up something from it and move forward. The new trend of coffee badging

Subha: this new trend of what they’re calling coffee badging. And I’ve been reading about how. Because companies are requesting that employees come to work more often. Employees are turning up, saying hello to colleagues, having a nice cup of coffee, collecting their kind of badge of approval for turning up and then heading back home.

Say, for example, in families with children or caregiving responsibility it’s easier when you’re present, right? Physically and for a long time, I think it was not even imaginable for a lot of us to say, I might be able to work from home, but.

Hasita Krishna: Now we can imagine it. We have lived through it. So why are we really changing it? I think there’s also some probable amount of frustration from the fact that if you remember as soon as the lockdown hit the very next day, we were just working from home processes and systems and how we did it. All of that happened later. But the fact is that the first thing we showed up for was working,

Subha Chandrasekaran: correct

Hasita Krishna: So when we’ve reiterated that commitment to that extent, maybe it feels like a decision that’s been imposed on us without ours contribution to it in any way,

Subha Chandrasekaran: That’s what I’m saying. Like this entire period of turmoil, no company has really complained that productivity was an issue. On the other hand, everybody was happy with the increased productivity. And so if you’ve taken a bit of advantage of all of that, and we have made sure that the ship is sailing smoothly, just cut us some slack and believe that we will continue to do the good work, no?

Hasita Krishna: It’s interesting that you bring up the productivity perspective, right? Because as you said, from the individual side, when you look at it, it’s that I still showed up. I still did not only what I was supposed to do, but above and beyond. What was expected of me, despite which I saw a lot of my colleagues being let go in the years that followed. And now you are also telling me that I do not have agency in how I live my life anymore because we are, Hey, guess what? Three days a week. I have to come drink coffee, say hi and go back. When is the right time to change your career?

Subha Chandrasekaran: See either you’re in that, let’s say half where the decision is pretty clear because the company Is close to shutting down or there’s clear signs that the industry is heading nowhere or that the actual workplace for you is just not okay. it’s toxic and something’s going wrong in some of those situations, then it’s crystal clear what you have to do.

But when for most of us, you’re chugging along, right? You’re just chugging along on that curve and there’s nothing woefully wrong. and if you, on a good day, you can convince yourself that everything is wonderfully right. 

Hasita: still Monday morning doesn’t feel as great as it used to. There are perhaps a few questions you can ask yourself. I found them useful when I made the decision, which again, took many months, trust me. Simply to say one, am I learning anything new? Both of us are very strong proponents of adding valuable skills. So am I learning anything new?

Subha: what I’m doing, am I challenged by it, right? Like many times when you dig deeper, you realise, Hey, this is 50 percent or 60 percent of what I’m doing, or even 20, 30%. I was doing this three, four years ago also. So how am I challenging myself and growing the third question to ask yourself is what next, what do I see ahead of me?

And are those opportunities going to be made available to me?Am I on the track to something that I want? Lastly, I think. That’s your joy factor. Am I around people, senior, junior, middle, whatever you call it, am I around people I like meeting every day? And are we doing something good together? So let

Hasita: jump back and see what my resume looks like?

Subha: What is the story that I wanted to convey? And here there is a huge gap in understanding what is that document for? Because one, there’s one set who just dump everything into it, right? And sometimes I get a six or seven page starting document to work with.

Hasita: clearly has to come down to one or two pages that just talk about what you did in the job that was given to you and how you did that really well. And how much do you recommend that someone should zoom in or zoom out in these things? 

So that aspect of crafting that story and that thread is very important. So firstly, this whole time frame of making this document or putting together a resume or a profile. Give that itself some time. This is not a weekend activity that many think it will be right I’ve had a really bad week.

Subha: And this Friday I’ve decided enough is enough from Monday. I’m going to start applying this weekend. I’ll make my resume. It does not get done like that simply because we haven’t spent enough time reflecting on it. So that resume has to capture that. And, coming back to what you asked, how deep do I go?

It’s not really about depth, but it’s about conveying. I feel any line on a resume has to convey one of two things. Either what you did for the role, the job, the organisation, and the opportunity that you were given, or how you use that to enhance your skill set.

So either you did X, Y, Z leading to. business growth, rise in revenues, et cetera, or you learned AI ML and used that to do something. So there are only two characters in this story, the organisation slash role. And you,

Hasita: That’s interesting. ​

Wrap up

Subha: Thank you again for listening. Do remember to follow us on Apple Podcast or Spotify or wherever you happen to listen to podcasts. If you do leave us a review on Apple, it will really help us grow in the charts and that helps more new listeners find us. We’ve been doing very well in the career category, and that’s thanks to your reviews, your ratings, and your listens.

So please do keep that up on Apple and Spotify, and also do let us know what you would like to hear about more on Smalltalk. And keep listening, and we’ll be back for an even better season 5 very soon.