S5E4 – Who are you in a crisis?

Join Subha Chandrasekaran and Hasita Krishna in this week’s episode as they reflect on navigating a family health crisis and how it revealed different roles within their family. They discuss the traits of crisis leaders, effective communication in tumultuous times, and whether you can build for crisis leadership. Whether you’re a natural leader or a skilled follower, there’s something valuable in understanding your role amid chaos. Tune in now!

Discussion Topics: Who are you in a crisis?

• Looking back at the crisis with fondness
• Self-preservation is a powerful instinct
• How are start-ups prepared to handle crises?
• Can you build for becoming a leader in a crisis?
• How to communicate to people that you’re taking charge?
• Crisis communication is not just saying everything
• Make it my problem – don’t escalate it

Transcript: Who are you in a crisis?

Subha Chandrasekaran: Welcome to another episode of the Small Talk with Rainkraft podcast! Been a rough week, hasn’t it?

Hasita Krishna: It’s been an interesting week. It’s a bit of a family health emergency and I think it’s the first time that someone we are close to has gone through something like this. And how do you bounce back? Just to let you know, the worst-case scenario didn’t pan out, let’s put it that way.

But for a week it felt like it, it might as well have. It was quite interesting to see. The same people who you’ve grown up with, who’ve, who brought you up, suddenly take on very different roles when something like this hits.

Subha Chandrasekaran: I think crisis teaches us a lot of things about ourselves and those around us, right? And it surprises us most of the time, I think.

Hasita Krishna: Quite a bit. Just in terms of how I think sometimes people are able to step up. Deal with stuff and it’s interesting and tell me if there is a coincidence there or not. But are all bankers just generally better prepared to handle the trauma?

Subha Chandrasekaran: Yeah, we are pretty much waiting for the worst to happen most of the time and it does also. But you’re right we see different sides of ourselves and others who we’ve been, working with or living with for years on end. And who I am in a crisis is very. Interesting self awareness question.

Hasita Krishna: And yeah, you’re absolutely right because I think this is the first time I’ve realised that in a crisis I’m actually a really efficient follower.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Yeah, so let’s get into a crisis together, because I love to lead in a crisis. Or not.

Hasita Krishna: Please, I’m done. I don’t want any.

Looking back at the crisis with fondness

Subha Chandrasekaran: If I look back at some of the horrendous things that have happened, which definitely qualify as a crisis, Transactions gone wrong, client communication gone wrong, that Monday morning release gone wrong. I’m a little embarrassed to admit it, but I do Look at it with a little bit of fondness, because, only because it passed, let’s be honest.

Not always with the best of outcomes, but I know that I genuinely thrive in such situations. It takes some bit of looking back to think about what those traits were, right? Just to put labels on it, I think definitely in a crisis you need somebody to emerge as a leader.

You need, hence, followers. Because they are, they can’t be walking alone. There are managers who step up, like you said, and become leaders and there are managers who continue to be. And I’ve also seen those who completely crash and burn.

Hasita Krishna: In this situation, we had one of each. I can see that now. Yeah, but the funny thing is there is value to each of those traits and behaviours. Because, I’m just thinking about the crash and burn situation. It’s not ideal in a crisis. Maybe these are people who do well in a stable state, absolutely. Some of us enjoy dealing with crisis situations to the point where it may not seem very exciting to not have one every other day. But then there has to be someone who gets excited about just coming in and turning on the switch every morning as well, right? 

Subha Chandrasekaran: So true. And that’s really what I experienced with some kind of a system-wide, market-wide glitch across the stock market and banks and everything, there was something that went down.

And I witnessed a colleague who was so good at his day job, so to speak, completely just give up on that. day and, some of us took over some of the things that he knew how to do. But just the enormity of the situation, he decided, This is not what I want to be doing or enjoy doing or what I think I can help us get to the other side of, etc.

But that took nothing away from me. Who he was on every other day and came in with amazing energy, enthusiasm, ideas, execution, all of that. 

Hasita Krishna: I think maybe when pushed to a corner, all behaviour is irrational and that’s fair. There’s nothing wrong with you reacting.

Self-preservation is a powerful instinct

Subha Chandrasekaran: No, we are all going to respond in very different ways, whether it’s personal or something at the workplace. And maybe also not to put too much judgment on it. It’s a situation that came, different people reacted differently. And it, you can say, it does reveal some bit of who they are and, but it’s who they are in that situation. And I suddenly had this image of there’s this fire in a kid’s party and George Costanza is the first one to push all the kids and run out the door.

Hasita Krishna: Like self-preservation is a powerful instinct and I also think you’ve spoken about leadership in a crisis. But typically, in the day-to-day running of something, you’re not hiring for crisis management or you’re not starting something, assuming a crisis will happen.

Subha Chandrasekaran: So true. That’s interesting. Like you, you hire somebody for a set of skills, and you want them to really create those new products and build the teams and run the company and when we’re talking crisis, we’re talking something of slightly larger intensity, not the day to day struggles and challenges, but when something large hits the organisation or the team or the family unit you are then now expecting this person to excel in that situation also. So I think the best the best of organisations and units prepare well for these situations. 

How are start-ups prepared to handle crisis situations?

Hasita Krishna: This kind of is where I’m coming from as well because business as usual is a concept in large organisations. Startups, smaller teams, where really the focus is on the skill set and doing things faster.

Yes, there is a certain amount of grit and resilience. But I don’t know that Startups are prepared for crises of an external variety, right? And I don’t mean lack of funding, that is still very much an internal problem. But how many startups have plans for things like, okay, tomorrow morning, I wake up and the need for that business doesn’t exist?

Because when you’ve hired people with the intent of them doing a job and doing a job well, Where does that characteristic or that trait really make itself felt and how do you, let’s say, for example, you want to find out what you do?

Subha Chandrasekaran: Maybe that’s why the more established places have very good testing processes or, contingency testing is part of their calendar. You know that once a quarter you’re going to test for having that building fire drill which is also very telling to the guys who immediately shut down and walk down the stairs quietly versus the lady, who tries to say, hey, it’s okay, it’s not a real fire, no, I’ll finish this call or I’ll finish this email.

But, as you said, in banking, all of that testing and general high level of preparedness made it a lot easier when some of those things actually panned out, which they did. We’re not testing for things that will never happen in our lifetime, right? There will be times when networks are down, when your building is, in a zone where there’s a flood and you can’t reach it, or when three, or four employees, Of a crucial team went on a picnic and they all fell ill and nobody’s there on a Monday morning.

Having all, having tested it again and again, brought you to a level of pretty strong preparedness. At least you didn’t panic. There was a plan. Very detailed. Hard copy printed playbook to say, hey, in these situations, this is what you can do.

And even during the course of work, I think we were always thinking about what’s the plan B? Today I’m doing it. If I don’t come in tomorrow, who else knows how to do it? And that kind of thinking really helped when the situations actually arose. And you’re right, in startups, it’s a lot tougher.

Even for you, think about it. If you have two writers and a designer and you and two of the four don’t turn up, it’s a crisis. But these are skill sets that you have somewhere practised to step in for.

Hasita Krishna: Makes sense.

Can you build for becoming a leader in a crisis?

Hasita Krishna: Which kind of brings me to, can you build for becoming a leader in a crisis? Is that possible or are you? Because we are talking about something very fundamental here, right? Like it’s not a, it really is that visceral response, as we call it, the whole body kind of reaction to situations, right? 

Subha Chandrasekaran: So true. So maybe either you have that I feel like sometimes I’m, I would be the one who runs towards the fire in the organisational context. If you’re in a leadership role, you are expected to run towards the building or stay put in the building and help put out the fire.

It may come naturally to you, or you have to break it down to, hey, what are the two, or three things that are important? That, I may not, it may not be something I enjoy doing or even, something that I’m comfortable doing. But these are the steps. And I’ve rehearsed it in my mind or there’s a playbook or it’s expected of me that I will communicate that when I’m in charge.

That is so helpful in a crisis if ever, because 99 percent are followers, managers, and the two, or three who have also crashed by the wayside, but they want to know whom to listen to.

Hasita Krishna: Yeah, I think a lot of yes, you’re right, like the freezing response in situations like this comes from not knowing as well.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Yeah, who’s going to tell us what to do? Or am I supposed to decide what to do? So if someone says, this, we follow this person, which doesn’t always have to be the leader of the pack. So if you are a leader, a founder, or a team manager, are not so comfortable in these situations. Part of your preparation could be identifying the person who will take charge.

That’s interesting. It doesn’t have to be the CEO. You could have a crisis manager. Could be their, whatever, part-time job. Assuming, they don’t need to step into that too often. If it’s a full-time job, you have another problem.

But that, and then, and hence the next biggest thing is, How are you communicating? How are you telling people that you’ve taken charge or that, hey, it’s okay, we’ve got this, well, it’s not going to be easy, but we’ll figure it out.

How to communicate to people that you’re taking charge?

Hasita Krishna: It’s quite interesting, because literally, most of the time, the word crisis is followed by the word PR, right?

Subha Chandrasekaran: So I think, for example, George Bush got a positive PR spin when he was sitting and reading to kindergarten kids and he was told that 9-11 had just happened. And he didn’t panic, he didn’t jump out of his seat, he finished what he was doing. And that was, that has been quoted many times as, very powerful and Powerful crisis leadership. Like he did the right thing. Do not freak out.

Hasita Krishna: Do not freak out. But it’s interesting, I don’t know what layers and dimensions are there to that, but when I think Queen Elizabeth II tried to do the same in the wake of Princess Diana’s passing, it was the exact opposite.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Because the missing piece was communication, I think. The PR machinery. The stiff upper lip. The PR machinery didn’t put it out that yes, she is upset, but She’s also the queen and she’s also whatever.

So no, very true. I think it’s the communication that is critical. Many times. So I’ve had instances in my career where things have gone woefully wrong. Somebody Downstream in the team. Oops, and the repercussions are much larger than that and there was a kind of string of stuff, which, Murphy’s law, like one compound and whatever.

And I ended up writing a lot of these, very apologetic males to senior management saying, this is what happened. This is the root cause. This is the impact in some cases, And in large organisations, you’ll have, a very very detailed grid of, who all have to approve.

And sometimes it goes up really to the top. And it became something that became like a skill set almost. For the few years after that, I would have been like senior folks, even sometimes in another department saying, Hey, can you draft that email? Because when you send it, people believe you. And two, they don’t seem to question too much because you’ve covered everything that they would want to know.

Crisis communication is not just saying everything

Hasita Krishna: That’s interesting, right? Because I think crisis communication is not just about saying everything. I think so many times, especially when there are people who are in that freeze response, saying too much is a much bigger problem, right? And it causes its own sub fires in different places.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Yeah, especially in family situations. Who all do you tell? How much do you tell? Because suddenly everyone’s panicked and everyone’s got a flight and come over and now you have to tend to them more than the crisis itself. 

Hasita Krishna: Yeah, absolutely.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Crisis leadership is really about that. I think it’s about one. Clarifying who’s in charge of communicating in a very consistent concise and comprehensive manner. And also, one of the things that I always used to get positive feedback about from my team was that if we came and told you that we did something wrong, your first reaction was to fix that.

As opposed to saying, how could you do this? Why did you do this? And, blaming the individual or even questioning. And that gave us a lot of confidence to come to you because the focus was on solving the problem. Because finally, that’s what you want. And despite who did what, the problem needs to be solved.

And in our kind of job, there was always a timeline, like a deadline to it. You had to do it within the next two hours or the next three hours or the repercussions or the implications were even larger. Focusing on the problem rather than the people. But afterward, doing as a group of very Detailed post mortem.

Hasita Krishna: You know what’s interesting to me is that you talk about this as though a crisis should be expected. Is that just the banker

Subha Chandrasekaran: Are you? I think because whether you expect it or not, it’s coming. And my thought process has always been like if you’re running an operation shop or you’re running a team or you’re running a set of processes there are humans sitting there. So what are the chances that you get it right each and every time? Things are going to go wrong.

Hasita Krishna: And you can’t accept it, but cognitively makes sense.

Make it my problem – don’t escalate it

Subha Chandrasekaran: Intuitively, that’s what we tell ourselves, maybe we don’t say it enough in the workplace. And we actually used to keep reiterating that please escalate. I had a super boss who used to keep saying, please make it my problem. I don’t want to be surprised by something.

So tell me if you, if something has gone wrong. And then we all collectively figure out what to do. And that’s. Intuitively, what you want at home, right? You’re telling your kids tell me don’t try to overmanage it. Don’t try to fix it yourself. And then catch me off guard. 

I think these are a few of the things where, sometimes you have it in you. But be okay with the fact that there are different roles people play and, it’s a good thing that we all don’t want to be the leader in a crisis. Seriously. It’s a really good thing. That’s one situation where you’re happy that a ton of people just want to follow.

They just want instructions. They give you that immediate anchor. Definitely these are the steps to be followed, right? And I don’t have to, I think many times it’s like a, it’s a brain freeze for a lot of people. And the playbook helps you ride through that. I don’t have to think, I just have to read and do fair enough. Instructions are there. We’ve seen with all the bingeing we’ve done of something like Grey’s Anatomy, the minute that…

Hasita Krishna: How many crises, no? That place runs on a crisis almost.

Subha Chandrasekaran: I think the minute that. Somebody rolls in on their Bernie or whatever you know that there’s a protocol and after a period of time, we only know what to say.

Hasita Krishna: No, in fact, I was thinking about all the meta crisis in that show, where every 10 episodes someone’s dying.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Quite prepared. No, so I think maybe that as leaders, or even… As just people in a team, in a family, in any unit, and we are all part of so many such things. Know who you are and be okay with it.

Hasita Krishna: Don’t get in the way of people who are trying to move things forward.

Subha Chandrasekaran: So if you’re a good follower, a good executor, then play that role well and look to see who’s the leader and how can I best support it. If you’re the leader, keep trying to see what you can do better each time, but, do what you do well. Fair enough. And if you crash and burn by the side, it’s okay. That’s how you are in that occasional crisis that comes along the rest of the time you’re doing, pretty good yeah. 

Hasita Krishna: Don’t beat yourself up. Don’t spread rumours.

Subha Chandrasekaran: Correct. Don’t bring down those who did a good job, finally. But Interesting.

Hasita Krishna: I hope to never see a crisis again for the rest of my life if I could. I know you hope the opposite so you know who to call if something is going wrong. There is somebody here who will step in with great joy and please do. I think somehow the banking folks just seem to be really good at it somehow.

Subha Chandrasekaran: I sound like a psychopath.

Hasita Krishna: You sounded that way from the time you were listening to the True Crime Podcast.

Subha Chandrasekaran: That didn’t give it away. So true. So that’s all folks. Catch you next time. Thanks for listening.