#88 Unlocking Parenting Secrets with Angie Fox

How can we be truly great parents for our children? Angie Fox, a parenting expert from Aletheia Academy, shares her unique approach to parenting and the concept of unfolding. We discuss the challenges of understanding and connecting with children of all ages and how parents can create a harmonious relationship. Join us in exploring the world of parenting, where self-improvement gives way to embracing the journey of continuous unfolding. Stay tuned for more!

Discussion Topics: Unlocking Parenting Secrets with Angie Fox

• Who is Angie?
• What is the unfolding approach in parenting?
• Shifting from traditional parenting
• What are the main aspects that define the unfolding approach?
• Your child is living in a different world than yours
• How to deal with teenagers?
• Parenting is a spiritual journey
• Closing

Transcript: Unlocking Parenting Secrets with Angie Fox

Yana Fry: Welcome to Timeless Teachings, everyone. Recently, I interviewed Steve March from Aletheia Academy, and our conversation was called From Self Improvement to Unfoldment, It received so much interest and feedback from you guys and girls and everyone else that today we have another wonderful teacher from Alice Academy and her name is Angie Fox and we are going to talk about parenting. So Angie, thank you so much for joining us today.

Angie Fox: Thank you so much for having me.

Yana Fry: A few words about yourself, please. So who is Angie and how did you come into the space of parenting and teaching parents?

Who is Angie?

Angie Fox: So, I’m Angie Fox, and I’m part of the Aletheia Coach Training School, we’ve also launched a parenting program to help conscious parents who want a conscious. So we bring an unfolding approach to that, which I’ll say a little bit more about. I’m also a mother of two. I have two teenagers. My son is nearly 16. My daughter is nearly 14 and there’s a little buzz in our household because we’re just starting school tomorrow. So it’s an exciting time for them. And it’s exciting for me to be here with you, getting to talk about this. It’s a topic that’s really near and dear to my heart.

Yana Fry: Yep, that’s exciting and I love your story, I would ask a few more questions because I know your story and find it fascinating to share with our audience today. But before we go into this, let’s just say a few words about the methodology so that we create the context and talk about parenting and unfolding. So what does it mean?

What is the unfolding approach in parenting?

Angie Fox: Yeah, so in our school, we take an unfolding approach, whether it’s in self-development, for coach training, and for parenting. And what we mean by that is we contrast that to the prevailing paradigm in our society, which is really one of self-improvement one where we, people see ourselves or we see others as deficient in some way.

There’s something wrong with us or something that needs a gap that needs to be filled. And so, then there’s, you know, self-improvement is sought out.

In our unfolding approach, we actually. Start from a place of, well, what if nothing is missing? What if our kids are whole and complete as they are, right? And they need support for their growth and for their development and their continuous unfolding.

The same thing applies to us as parents too. Parenting has this way of really triggering so much of our own insecurity, so much of our own sense of like, am I doing this right? And so it’s really easy to evoke some of our own inner criticism or feeling of not being good enough.

And so we apply this to ourselves as well. We’re not deficient as parents. What if we’re already whole and complete and unfolding in our parenting journey? So I think a really good example of talking about this is actually turning towards nature because nature emulates unfolding so beautifully.

So if you take the idea of a sunflower, it starts out at us as a seed. And with the right conditions, with enough nutrients in the soil and water, that seed will send up its first shoots.

And then from there, it will start to grow, it will get taller, it will get bigger, it will fill out. Eventually, it will form leaves and a flower. Eventually, that flower will start to make seed again. And nowhere on that journey, when we meet a sunflower seed, do we look at it and say, Oh, you poor deficient sunflower.

You’re not a sunflower yet. We need to fix you. We need to problem-solve you, right? It is whole and complete just as it is. It’s just a journey. So we apply that to our children and we can apply that to ourselves, which helps us bring so much more compassion and curiosity into how we work with

Yana Fry: I love it, Angie. For example, with the sunflower, it is so beautiful. And since we talk about our children, we could say the same about pregnancy. It’s a constant unfoldment.

So I could see just more and more humans who understand that parenting starts actually during pregnancy, you could say this way. So we parent ourselves first. And a lot of things that a person who is carrying a baby is feeling and especially thinking, and it affects and imprints the baby so much. I just spoke recently with a friend of mine who is a psychotherapist, and she’s specialising in guiding women through their pregnancy.

And we were just talking, for example, about stress and often people say that women who are pregnant should not feel stress. But actually, she was telling me that the studies show that there has to be stress in moderation for a pregnant mom. because the stress creates a very short-term oxygen deficiency for the baby.

And, you know, and then it prepares the baby for the birth because when the birth starts, the baby will have to go through this oxygen deficiency stage to actually be born. So it’s amazing how incredibly wise nature is and everything that we experience is just right there.

Angie Fox: Yeah, it is such an amazing journey. And, you know, your example there is just such, you know, there’s so many of just how intricate the relationship is and how much influence, you know, we talk a lot about the conditions needing to be just right? The conditions are really what make and allow for this unfolding process to occur, whether it’s in the womb or it’s outside of the womb as the child is growing.

Yana Fry: Yes, absolutely. As I would like us to dive deeper into the idea of parenting and the way we would like to share today, let’s talk a little bit about our personal lives. I just find it’s an interesting example because both you and I have probably not had a traditional parenting situation. So would you be comfortable to start sharing with yours?

Shifting from traditional parenting

Angie Fox: So I’m a divorced mother my children’s father and I divorced about nine years ago. So oftentimes you hear stories of people wanting to stay together until the kids are grown or until a certain age and, it just felt like our relationship didn’t feel like it was one that, that I wanted my kids to see as the model.

This is how a relationship should be. We had really grown apart and our values were shifting in ways that weren’t so aligned. And so it really felt to me like the right thing to do for my kids was for us to separate. And it was hard. It wasn’t so amicable.

And our situation was such that we actually did more of what we call parallel parenting where, you know, there were things that the kids would do with me and there were things that they would do with their dad and it actually worked better for us to not have to come to agreement on things.

So it wasn’t an easy road. It’s definitely smoothed out but I did meet another man along the way and got married and he has been a lovely, I’ll say bonus dad to my kids.

And yeah, so it’s been rich, it’s been exciting and the, I’ve of course read a lot of literature along the way and I’ve. Really rested in, it just takes one really solid, sturdy parent who is attuned to their children and attuned to their needs.

And so I just learned to rest in that. Like, I can only do the best that I can when the kids are with me. And when they’re not with me, I have zero control, I have zero influence, and I just need to trust. And in the end, the kids will, you know, they’ll find their way.

Yana Fry: Thank you so much for sharing. Good, Andrew. I love your story. I find it’s really an interesting one. And so my story, I am in my second marriage and so is my current husband and interesting. He’s also older than me and so he has a child from a previous marriage and I have known the child since the boy is five years old.

So now he’s 19. It’s what? 14 years that I have known the child and for the last, especially like 11, 12, I have been very actively engaged because that’s what our marriage was when this came in. And it has been very interesting for me because I remember, of course, when I met my current husband and he just got divorced and both he and his ex-wife were very nervous.

How it is in their mind could potentially traumatise the child. So they just try to do everything they can to minimise that. And the way they did it is just to be, you know, as human and friendly and empathetic and compassionate. Towards each other as they could possibly be in this situation. And I must say that probably I’m one of those who got lucky because my husband, and wife are amazing. And I remember how she welcomed me so warmly into the family.

And I was so nervous because you hear all those stories about ex-wives, I guess when you come into your family. And, you know, so to me, it’s interesting maybe because she was just so kind and compassionate. towards me from day one. So from, it’s naturally translated how I feel about her son who has been living close with us because we did for many years co-parenting and all kinds of different ways, you know, we, a kid, lived in different households.

As you probably know this. It’s like a few weeks here, a few weeks there, weekends here, weekdays there, the other way around. So we tried all possible scenarios over the years, including like a few years at one household and a few years at a different household because we also live in different countries.

And so I have been a parent and this is also what I find interesting you could almost say identity crisis. I kept asking myself, am I really a parent? Like, does it really count? Am I as much of a parent, let’s say, as his biological mom, or his biological dad?

And so I remember just having those. mental torments for a very long time. And of course, when the child is small, it is very hard to clarify because they are too small and I wouldn’t ask those questions, but when I’m sharing this, what is interesting for me.

I mean, now we’re definitely 18 and 19 and we started having these conversations with him about family and how he lived through divorce and growing up in two different households with parents living in different countries and how it’s impacted him and how he feels about everyone. So it was very interesting for me to hear his thoughts.

First of all, he feels that he’s not traumatised at all about anything because all the people involved tried their best to create just a loving family wherever he is. And so his biological mom also got remarried, so he has two full family sets on both ends. And so he said, usually if you have a nuclear family, which is good, then you would have mom and dad.

Those are like two wings that help a child to fly. And in his words, that in his situation, he has four wings. Because there are four adults who have been contributing to his development. And actually, he feels very lucky and very grateful. And he bonds with each parent, whether biological or not, in his own unique way. And I just want to highlight it here because I find it’s important.

By no means, we are giving any particular advice during this conversation, right? So you’re the only one who knows what is right for you. So if you find yourself in a difficult marriage. I don’t know what you should be doing. That’s entirely up to you. So the choice to stay or not to stay and how to handle either situation, it’s entirely up to you and it’s very individual for each family.

Yeah, absolutely. I so appreciate hearing your story about Yana and yeah, there are just so many configurations of families out there.

Angie Fox: In our parenting group, there’s one woman, who had a baby recently in the last year or two and and also married somebody who had four children. So she got four bonus children right out of the gate and then had a newborn. And the bonus children’s ages were like, they were young children and a couple of teenagers.

And, talk about really diving into the deep end. And every configuration has struggles. My co-lead with the parenting program at Aletheia Emma Russell is her name. And she has two kids and she’s married to her husband. And so she hasn’t been through a divorce. And I just think it’s really lovely that as we teach this program together, we have multiple different examples to be able to speak from around, you know, how this can go. Different challenges, some same challenges.

Yana Fry: Exactly. So it’s like these days parent is a huge word. So in particular methodology that you guys are using at your academy, let’s maybe just again, dive a bit more. What is when we talk about unfolding, you could maybe tell me the main Aspects that you think to define this kind of parenting and how would it be different from what we understand under traditional parenting.

What are the main aspects that define the unfolding approach?

Angie Fox: Thanks for asking. So if we continue kind of this idea of the unfolding approach, we actually start within like a way of reorienting, or we call it our reorienting principle. And it’s this idea that kids are doing the very best they can with the brains and the bodies that they have.

And so if you start from a place of, well, what if, we hold it more as a question, what if my child is doing the very best they can with the brain and body that they currently have? This applies to my nearly 16-year-old, right, and my 14-year-old. They’re in puberty, they’re in, junior high and high school, and they’re navigating a different social arena, and their bodies and brains are still developing, so it still applies.

They don’t have the judgment of a 24-year-old yet. So when we hold that kind of a question, when we hold that possibility, it’s just so much more generous. Then, oh, they’re doing something wrong and I need to correct that behaviour. It has us actually getting a little bit more curious. Like, huh, I wonder, you know, what’s going on for them?

What are they thinking about? What are they taking into consideration as they’re making that choice? Let me explore it with them. It slows me down. Sometimes I start to go back and remember what it was like for me when I was a teenager. What kinds of things was I getting up to? How was I spending my time before I judged how they wanted to spend their time?

Let me remember what it was like as a teenager, staying up late and hauling that phone that still had a cord on it all the way to my bedroom and trying to sneak being on the phone way late at night. And like, that’s all the same stuff teenagers are doing now, it’s just on a different kind of device. And, so we just find that as a starting point is such a lovely way to really. Witness unfolding being more curious and approaching things with more compassion.

Yana Fry: And I also love how we touched upon, you know, when we were preparing for our interview today, the concept of time, I find it fascinating. And since it’s called Timeless Teachings, right, so it’s appropriate we talk about time and just the difference of how children, especially I think younger ages, perceive time and how adults and how it clashes and what happens when it clashes.

Your child is living in a different world than yours

Angie Fox: It’s so true, especially for young children. They don’t have a sense of time, right? It’s meaningless in their world. In our work, we talk about, you know, different depths and four different depths that we inhabit. Kids, tend to inhabit a depth that is very much about living in the flow and in the moment.

And the world that they live in is the world of play. There’s such a source of suffering that happens for kids and parents when parents all of a sudden realise, Oh, we’re running late.

We need to get you to school. Hurry up. Put your shoes on. We’re gonna be late. Like the word late doesn’t really have a lot of meaning to a young child. After a while it does, because they realise that their parents are really getting stressed out, their voice is changing, their energy is changing, they’re feeling rushed, and they have to stop their play.

And so that’s a place that really causes a lot of friction between kids and parents. If we can hold this idea that their world is really different from ours, it can sometimes ease us up.

And it can make us think about how we might bridge the gap to help them get more easily from their world to ours. We can also think about how we might join their world from time to time. Especially young kids, you know, young kids are so hungry for their parent’s attention, you know, whether they’re playing like, you know, making a tea set and wanting to have a little tea party together. Come on, mommy. Come join me for tea. They’re in their own world.

Let me come join you and meet you there. Your world matters, and it’s important. The work of childhood really is play. And so the more that we can allow our kids to continue and stay in that play, and we don’t have to drag them into the stressful adult world that we live in. The more they can really become who they are meant to be there’s so much less stress when they’re playing.

They’re learning to problem solve. They’re learning fine motor skills. They’re learning gross motor skills. That is such a way that the kids learn Yeah. And then when I love the story, one of the parents in our cohort recently shared that he has a daughter, I think is five or six. And so, every night bath night is a bit of a struggle.

He was saying, that sometimes it takes 20 minutes chasing her around, trying to get her to take the clothes off to get into the bath and stop the play. So after this particular session, he realised she was playing with an imaginary friend and needed her to start to pick things up. And so he encouraged her and the friend to tidy up and they could go play over here instead, which the child was agreeable to.

And then when it was bath time he said, well, why don’t you bring your friend into the bath? You can continue the play there. And he pretended to, he picked up the daughter and pretended to pick up the friend too and carry them both to the bath. And so it, you know, it didn’t take any more time to do that.

It just took an understanding of my child’s in a different world. How can I help her stay in hers and also join me in mine at the same time? And that little bit of creativity, he was like, this was so smooth and easy and fun and playful.

Yana Fry: This is so beautiful. Such a wonderful story. Thank you for sharing. And it’s also just a great tip. And then of course, when they start growing up and they become more of a teenager, that becomes the whole other conversation because often in their mind, they feel that they are already adults.

How to deal with teenagers?

Angie Fox: Just in the last year, I remember having a conversation with my son, who’s the older of the two about, you know, you’re entering the time, I just have to warn you, you’re entering the time where it feels like your parents are becoming the stupidest people on the planet.

I understand that this truth about your world or the world that you’re living in right now, like is how it is. And you know, it might just be that maybe we know a thing or two. But yeah, it looks really different with teenagers, you know. Entering their world can look like getting curious about what it is they’re listening to and seeing if they’ll play it without, you know, the earbuds. So you can hear it too. And it’s been kind of fun. My son has really started to enjoy some of the 80s rock that I used to listen to.

And so then I can enter his world a little bit talking about the different concerts that I’ve gone to and You know, so all of a sudden I’m like, Oh, okay, I’m not the same mom to him. I’m a mom who actually used to be like him too. They love those kinds of stories.

Yana Fry: Exactly. No, it’s to continue your funny story. I just recently was playing video games with my bonus son and it was a hilarious experience because we found a video game where you need two players to play together. to achieve a common goal, to go to the next level. And it reminds me of how I used to play a very ancient version of whatever was a video game at that time with my older brother.

And that was one of the brightest moments in my memory about our bonding experience. And, you know, to your conversation about, especially for teenagers who just suddenly look at the world very differently and their parents very differently. So with my bonus son, since he was 18, we probably started having these conversations about the adult world.

And he just kept telling me, and he still does, how adult he feels, how old he feels and how much joy he feels. And he feels like his childhood has finished and he’s like a thousand years old. And it’s not like he knows everything, but he’s fully equipped. To handle and make any decision for his greatest benefit.

And we had this conversation, but I told him, trust me, you are not, because I remember myself when I was your age, 17, 18, 19, even 20, where I felt exactly the same, and now looking backwards, I personally regret deeply that my parents didn’t intervene with the harder hand and told me, you know what, this is not okay. Like, you should not be doing that. And so, because I felt that I knew everything at this age. And so now this conversation, you know, with my son when we are talking about it and I’m still telling him, look, you still have to follow the rules we have at home.

Even though you think you know better, you are still a child even though you think you are not. And you will be a child at least until you turn 21. And then after that, we can talk about it.

Angie Fox: Well, and the research, the neuroscience, the research is really, you know, it’s really looking like it’s more like 24 before the brain is really more fully developed and that rational thinking is fully on more fully online. It’s amazing how, you know, they think they’re so grown up and yet there’s so much still to learn and yeah.

Nowadays, there’s also so much information about parenting, of course, our parents and definitely our grandparents did not have any of that. And I just had a conversation with my mom recently, who is in her seventies, and she was just like, wow, I mean, I wish I had access to every single mom has these days, I would have done an entire thing.

Yana Fry: So differently. Most of the time around the world, it was either survival after World War II or the Great Depression or something really traumatic on a very fundamental, basic survival level, right?

So that’s kind of what they had to focus on. And then like our parents, I mean, depends on which country you were born and where you grew up. It’s the whole, this very free, the wave of parenting in some other places, and Asia has always been a bit different, but it’s interesting how our parents just had a very different view and just very different tools. And now our generation comes in and I have a friend who is a trauma specialist.

And so we had this very interesting conversation with her where she said that she believes the purpose of our generation is to heal our traumas so that we can become better parents. And then we give better opportunities and a foundation for our kids.

To deal with what they will need to deal with, which is at least two things. It would be climate change and air, which we did not have in, I mean, they would really have to look at both. And so we didn’t have to deal with that. And so in order for them to be fully equipped to deal with real-world changes in such a massive way, they can’t inherit our traumas.

And I think also at your school, this is what you’re offering. And it’s not only through parenting programs, but also through all kinds of other coaching programs to actually, first of all, support parents and their own healing and their own unfoldment. So that it’s not like we are, as you said, Angie, rightfully, it is not like we’re trying to fix anyone. We are not. It is more about helping people to remember that they are complete.

Angie Fox: I really believe the greatest gift we can give our kids is to do our own work. One of the beautiful things about children is that they end up being this exquisite mirror for us. You know, kids, they know inherently how to push our buttons. They know how to, what triggers us, and even if they’re not conscious of it, it’s unconscious.

I’m not a perfect parent. Nobody is. You can’t be. But if I hold what’s happening, but for, you know, if there’s something that one of my Children is doing that’s really triggering me, the first place to look is, okay, what’s happening for me here?

Why am I getting triggered? Let me meet that part of me that’s getting triggered, that’s frustrated or upset or feeling unloved or unappreciated right now. Yeah. And bring compassion to that part of me, if I can notice it, if I can name it if I can bring compassion to it then I’m a bit more freed up to actually have a conversation with my child about whatever it is that they’re doing that’s having an impact on me without my baggage, trauma, whatever that it’s a much more, it’s much cleaner interaction between us.

And what really matters is how safe and secure they feel with us when they’re with, when they’re in our presence, when they’re away from us, when they think about coming back to us, that’s really the relationship that we’re nurturing.

And so when we do our own work, we explore and use our parenting and all the things that are maybe not going as well as we would like as a way for us to look inward and to actually get to know and work on those things within ourselves. That’s the best gift we can give our kids.

So yeah I really see this as in some ways a really deep spiritual practice. It’s a leadership journey. It’s a personal journey and it’s spiritual work.

Parenting is a spiritual journey

Yana Fry: Definitely parenting. I mean, I’m one of those people who views everything as a spiritual practice in life. You know, your relationship, your parenting, your business, your everything, you’re washing your dishes, cleaning your floor every day. So to me, everything is a spiritual practice. And I just would like to add in a very important part where you said how children feel.

And the quality of the relationship in their eyes, and it reminds me of this beautiful way of looking at it, the importance that as parents, we find time to listen to our children when they’re little. To their small problems, right? So that the little, I don’t know, the little toy get lost, or maybe the bird flew away or something else or something or something else happened there because they say that if we don’t find time for our children when they’re little to share their little problems, when they grow up, they will not share their big problems because for them.

Those problems have always been big. And so I just find this is such a, you know, beautiful reminder. And at the same time, just as you said, Angie, no one is perfect. Every parent makes mistakes. And I think I’m striving for some kind of. Ideal parenting, it’s like striving for an ideal relationship or ideal anything.

It’s unrealistic. It will lead to frustration. So we just do the best we can, the best way we know how, given who we are at this given moment of time.

And I find that it is very important also for us as parents to have compassion for ourselves. that it’s okay. I forgive myself. I love myself. I know I did the best I could. And even if I feel that I made some mistakes in parenting, or maybe even missed out on some years of my child development, maybe I was away for whatever reason.

And I was not there when the child was growing up. And so I found that. Honesty, vulnerability, and truth settles all of those things. So then we can always come to the children, especially when they go a little bit above puberty. So it’s an understanding. And if we are just honest and vulnerable and we say, Hey, I know I messed it up.

And I know I have not always been the best parent and I know I have not always been there for you when you needed me. And I’m really sorry, like, and it hurts me to know that it hurt you. And if we are, I feel if we are really honest about it, I mean, the child will forgive and understand.

And I know a few people like that. When I talk to them, their biggest resentment is. That he or she or they have never said sorry or acknowledged their mistakes. And if they only did that, the child would forgive. And so I find that, like with our kids, it’s almost like there’s always opportunity for redemption if we want it.

And age is not the limit. It’s only in our head. And I do find… It’s important to just be there and have this time and space and build those relationships.

Angie Fox: Yeah, absolutely. We like to say it’s never too late. We can own our imperfections. We can share, what it is that we realised we didn’t do as well as we would have liked.

And you know, as enlightened as of some people might be in their parenting, there’s just no way of being a perfect parent, perfectly attuned to their child all the time. And they don’t need us to be perfect. They need us to be good enough. I just need to feel that they’re loved, that they’re seen, that they’re cared for, that they’re valued and appreciated, that they matter.

Yana Fry: Exactly. So I just want to say once again, for everyone who is listening or watching right now, whatever you are doing, if your heart is in the right place, and deeply in your heart, you love your kids. And you really wanted them to be happy and you were just doing the best you can in whatever way it is for you, it’s good enough.

It’s important that you also take care of yourself. That’s the call, maybe another conversation, Angie and I will have one day. We are coming soon to the end of this episode. And I just would love to maybe finish with the final question for you, Angie. If you would like now to say something to your kids, actually, and everyone else who is like them. What would you like to say?

Angie Fox: Ah. I just feel so honoured that I get to be their mother. They have been some of my brightest and best teachers in the world. I just feel so lucky that I get to help steward them on their way. And yeah, just honoured to get to walk this path with them. They’re both just beautiful human beings in their own unique, different ways and I treasure them both.

Closing

Yana Fry: Thank you so much. And that was Angie Fox with us today on the Timeless Teachings podcast. And please remember guys to subscribe like, and comment. That’s even more important, especially for this episode, we really would love to hear from you about your parenting style and maybe even perhaps the challenges that you’re facing.

If you feel you just want to share and maybe ask for some advice. I’m not saying that we know it all, but the collective does. And you will be surprised if you list your comment with your question, who knows who reads it, and people can support you within the community? So absolutely, you know, if there’s something you want to ask, something you want to share, do that.

We are here for you, and the whole idea of this platform is to create this collective sharing of wisdom with people across the world. Thank you so much for joining us today, and I’ll see you next time.

Angie Fox: Thank you.

Our Guest: Angie Fox

Angie Fox is a Coach and Faculty Leader at Aletheia, and an advocate for deepening our connection with ourselves and others, including our children, to awaken greater meaning and purpose in our lives.