YT31 | Focus, Flexibility and Discipline – a multi-potentialite’s approach to success and significance

How can proper discipline shape your way to success? Meet Mukul Deva, a man celebrated for his wide-ranging achievements. As a bestselling author, leadership coach, and former army officer, Mukul reveals how he has excelled in numerous fields over the years.

We talk about the role of discipline, the significance of learning from failure, and the necessity of maintaining focus to succeed in various industries. I also asked Mukul a $1,000,000 question: “How do you do it all… successfully?”

Discussion Topics: Focus, Flexibility and Discipline

• Introduction to Mukul Deva, a bestselling author, business strategist, and former army officer
• Starting and Succeeding – Mukul’s approach to initiating and excelling in new ventures
• What is the impact of discipline on achievements?
• Facing Failure – differences between failure and learning opportunities
• How to balance professional detachment with personal empathy
• Military Lessons – Key lessons from Mukul’s army service influencing his success
• Cultivating Discipline – Advice on developing discipline related to goal achievement
• Rest and Productivity – The importance of rest in maintaining long-term productivity
• Diverse Leadership –  Experiences with diverse groups and the role of empathy in leadership
• Entrepreneurial Success – Principles behind the success of Mukul’s businesses
• How do you build a team within a company?
• Strategies for overcoming negativity and staying focused
• Wrapping up

Transcript: Focus, Flexibility and Discipline

Mukul: If I want to do something, I just start it. I firmly believe that if you work hard at something, the chances of your succeeding are generally okay.

Yana: Welcome to another episode of YanaTV. Today our guest is Mukul Deva, who is a man of many talents. He is a recognized bestselling author, strategy and leadership facilitator, a former army officer, and a man who does multiple things. Especially in his career over the course of several decades and became really successful at all of them. And of course, I would like to know how do you do all of that? How do you start and succeed in industries which are entirely different, you could say?

Mukul: So the start part is easy. If I want to do something, I just start it. The success part, I put in my best and I leave the rest to whoever is sitting up there. If she believes I should succeed, I guess I succeed. I firmly believe that if you work hard at something, the chances of your succeeding are generally okay.

Yana: It sounds very simple. So let, let less die read, if it is that simple, there would be many more people who would be so successful in different areas. So I’m just wondering why we are not seeing it in the real world, why there are very few who can do it.

Mukul: Okay, that’s a good question. What happens is that, you see, there are two, two aspects which come into play. Firstly, Most people do not bring the level of discipline that I bring into the game, right? If you have to write a book, you write, you spend one hour a day writing it, come hell or high water.

So even if I’m traveling, which I do a lot, I will write. I will write in the airport lounge, I’ll write on the flight, but I will write. So that’s the first part. The second part is, you see this word, uh, succeed. The flip side is very important, failure. So a lot of people get confused between failure and a failed attempt, right?

So failure is if I set out to do something and I don’t achieve it and I give up, I change my goal. I don’t go for the original goal, then I can say I failed, but a failed attempt is if I try to go for something, I don’t succeed the first time I come back. I reassess the situation and go for the same goal from another direction.

So that would be a failed attempt. Now, failure. I have no comment on because I tend not to do it when I don’t succeed at something. I learn, I adapt, and I go back and do it again till I get what I want. So that, I guess, perseverance and discipline would be the key to why some succeed and some don’t succeed as often as they should.

Yana: Um, fact?

Mukul: Four years officer’s training and about sixteen and a half as an officer. 

Yana: So it’s about 20 years, right? So 20 years in the army, of course. I mean, things like a discipline determination, confidence also, imprinted in you over all these years, especially in the combat and officer training.

Mukul: So, confidence is something which all of us have, but we surrender. We surrender it to a dozen different factors. In my case, I choose to push away anything which I believe can even remotely undermine my confidence. So it makes me a bit of a narcissist, uh, a bit weird at times.

Yana: But you’re very aware of this and honest, so bad. 

Mukul: That’s just me.

Yana: So what you’re saying is if something comes that tries to undermine your confidence, you just remove the thought.

Mukul: Negative people, negative thoughts, uh, negative conversations. I, I literally walk away from them.

Yana: Which wouldn’t also require a lot of discipline when you are dealing with people, and some people could say that you’re just not very sentimental about humans, connections. 

Mukul: I wouldn’t go so far. I will say I have reasonably low levels of empathy and there are two reasons for that. One is that, uh, it’s part of my conditioning. You know, in combat you cannot have too many, uh, too much of empathy. It’s not good for you, but as a single parent it is required.

So I bring it into the game where required. But in my profession, I tend to shut it down because I do not work with people. I work with potential. So I would rather work on what they are capable of than what they’ve already achieved. Now that requires me to be a little colder at times, and I’m fine with that. 

Yana: Yeah, but you didn’t help them to realize their high potential, which is all that counts. Uh, you just mentioned about parenting, right? You have two children. Are you the same with them in terms of being efficient and a bit more liked? What is the parenting style?

Mukul: That’s an interesting question. You know, especially when you’re a single parent. And they are girls, right? They are girls and they are very well, uh, I must say they have turned out very well despite my parenting. So the point here is that when you’re a single parent, you have to really balance between being good and being effective. And both are required. You can’t just be a good parent because then you have to literally accept everything they tell you, which may not be good for them, especially when they are young.

Now, if I was to look back at myself clinically, I would say I was more effective than good, but I guess I was adequately good. Should be okay because my relationship with them is, I must say, uh, much better than, um, a lot of other parents that I know of.

Yana: Being in combat again since we started this conversation for so many years. I’m just curious, uh, besides the discipline and learning how to regulate your emotions clearly, and just being committed to a particular goal, right? When you just tune out everything that doesn’t serve you. Uh, what else do you feel you have learned in the army that made you who you are today?

Mukul: I learned three things. Focus, flexibility, and discipline. Focus means once I pick a target. I will go for it and nothing will stop me flexibility because when I go for anything, I’m fully aware that my plans are likely to get disrupted when the rubber meets the road, so I must learn to adapt and be agile, which is which makes me really good at the failed attempt part of it because when I fail in the attempt, I learn, I adapt and I go again.

But because my focus is clear, yeah. I stay on target and discipline because it is the super glue for everything that comes into play.

Yana: The last part, the discipline. Discipline varies. Like, some people have it also naturally. And the other one is all over the place. And they have to learn how to be disciplined. So let’s say there’s people maybe who are struggling with discipline, and I know there are many who are this way. What advice would you give to, level it up?

Mukul: Firstly, I must tell you there is no super pill here if you see the value of what you wish to achieve, discipline is easy. If you do not see the value of what you’re targeting. then you will tend to be iffy about putting the effort into it. And, the other, funny thing about discipline is the more you use it, the easier it becomes. It’s just like it’s like a muscle. It’s just like you go to the gym, you exercise a particular muscle every day, it gets stronger. Same with discipline. And, and the funny thing about discipline is people who have discipline do not need motivation. Because discipline creates a routine, a routine means I will do X, I will invest X amount of time in everything I do.

I don’t need to be motivated. It’s like people ask me, Oh, you write a book a year, don’t you get writer’s block? I don’t know what that is. I write one hour every day and lo and behold, the book gets run. Right? So that’s my take on it. Whatever you want to do, just see the value and the discipline will follow.

Yana: I love that. So it means, I guess, you know, for our audience, people who are listening, if they’re wondering right now that in some areas they might not feel enough discipline, it’s actually not just only pushing yourself, but maybe pausing and reevaluating in your mind, what is the value of what you’re doing and becoming really clear on that.

Mukul: Absolutely. So this part about pausing, right? I love that because I believe that we have very distinct phases. We learn, we apply, we achieve, and we rest. If you do not rest, then you will burn out much faster than your, uh, than those people who do. That’s why, you know, combat units do a lot of rest and recuperation. It’s a planned

Yana: I didn’t know that.

Mukul: So now you do. And it’s a planned activity companies and teams which actually plan for rest and recuperation. Do really well in the long run. I mean, in my case, like I see about five movies a week. Otherwise I go meet my friends, hang out in bars, stuff like that.

Yana: Okay, when we talk about dress, I’m very curious now about team and organization. So can you just give some examples how a team can rest and how organization can rest?

Mukul: You see. It’s not a great idea to overcomplicate stuff. So for me, rest is very simple. It’s the ability to switch off from my primary job, role, or work description. If I’m switched off from that, I’m doing something else. It could be cycling, could be swimming, could be running, could be reading a book, watching a movie.

Anything which prevents me from continuously thinking about work would, in my book, be deemed as rest. It could just be sleeping or sitting by the side of the pool doing nothing, right? yeah, many times people ask me, what are you doing? I say I’m doing nothing, and they don’t get it and they don’t get it, right? Yes, I think that if you’re able to switch off and disengage from that, then two things happen. One is you rest. Second is you prevent ambient stress is a big killer, individual productivity and team productivity. It’s that ability to switch off to disconnect from your work. So that’s how I deem, uh, that’s how I, um, describe rest.

Yana: I know that among your clients, you, I mean, you work with, let me say, high profile people who are achieving both in business and government, and you know, NGOs also, and it’s probably like, is it 50 50, men, women, you would say, who are coming?

Mukul: Um, I would say that we work a lot more with women leaders because one of our company’s mandate is DEI, right? So because of that, we deliberately choose to work with a lot more women leaders. It’s more satisfying. 

Yana: I’m interested here. So when people usually talk about women or, you know, connecting with women or working with women, it’s a lot about, you know, you have to find their emotionally, you know, you need to be very empathetic. You have to meet them exactly where they are.

And I look at you and I say it with all respect, vocal. You just, you know, you’re different, right? And you said it. Some of you are very connected and at the same time distant a little bit when you need to be. And so I’m just curious here, especially when you work with so many women, and they love working with you because they keep renewing contracts and they’re achieving when they want to achieve.

Isn’t it a bit like counterintuitive when people look, you know, from the side? And I’m just wondering here, why is it actually working so well?

Mukul: Think they like working with me because of my pretty face. But other than that, you see, this point about being connected enough. there’s a difference between sympathy and empathy. Sympathy is not very useful, and it’s in some ways demeaning. So I demonstrate the right, level of empathy, which helps them to understand that look, whether I understand you or not, I’m not judging I I don’t need to agree with you, I don’t need to put myself in your shoes because that reduces my ability to influence change in a positive way. Right. So I connect with people enough. I demonstrate enough empathy for them to feel comfortable. But I still stick to my primary role, which in my head is to work on the potential of the person I’m working with. I guess which is why they get along. I also work a lot with generations X, Y and Z.

Yana: Yes and how is it working with them, actually?

Mukul: Well, you should ask them. I enjoy it. Okay. I thoroughly enjoy it. Which is why, which is why I guess they keep calling me back, right?

Yana: It’s interesting. It just for me, it is. You’ve got observation, just different qualities that people have when it comes, you know, to efficiency which probably also comes from your army training and then everything that you developed after this, like, you know, a personality which is very integrated in the society, but sovereign.

Mukul: So, I would not attribute that to my army training. I would attribute that actually to my being an

Yana: When

Mukul: I write books, I literally sit in the middle. I have no sense of judgment or morality. So I listen to a story or I describe a character or I’m interviewing a serial killer. I’m not judging them. I’m literally just listening to the story. I guess it kind of seeped into my personality because I literally am unable to judge anyone basis their color, gender, um, what generation they belong to. I meet people wherever they are. I do not seek to either understand them or agree with them.

I just refuse to judge them. That is what people tell me is a kind of comfortable place because I’m just observing and I’m okay with whoever they are. So that kind of works for me.

Yana: I’m sure it does. Um, business, right? I mean, you have done also a few, different companies and different industries. And so right now I think the latest, which has been around for decades. You had 15 years, right? Influence solutions and you guys specialize in facilitation, leadership and kind of growing and grooming, uh, leaders in 

Mukul: So we focus on leadership, influence and transformation.

Yana: You so successfully built a business given that you didn’t go to business school? I mean, teaching, guiding people who perhaps at times, you know, did go to school and maybe several universities and they’re still struggling with certain things, which you help them to clarify.

Mukul: So I would say there are four reasons why my companies tend to succeed. So let’s talk about influence solutions. Why we tend to succeed One. We are very disciplined and very focused on the goal, our goal being not our financial success, but our desire to make visible impact.

Yana: How do you measure visible impact?

Mukul: And that’s the second point, because we have, we have developed all our programs in house and all, every program has a singular aim to help our clients. either seize a business opportunity or overcome a business problem. we believe our programs have no value unless they can help a client do this.

So that’s the second reason. The third reason is that when we say we are going to solve a problem or seize an opportunity, we actually help the clients. to measure the impact. So when we work with an organization, the first thing we ask them to do. Okay, what business results are you looking for? Let’s say they identify any three.

Then we ask them to give us the start point indicator. Where are they on those three results right now? And we measure them periodically, right? Till as far as 180 days after the intervention is complete, right? And the fourth reason why we tend to succeed is again because We make sure that the needs of three different groups are met. Human resource of that organization. The business leader, because human resource wants to create a powerful culture. The business unit leaders want to meet business goals. And the participants want self development and learning. We make sure that we meet all three needs whenever we design a program. So these I would say are the four reasons. Why influence solutions tend to stand out very well. 

Yana: And you guys again have been around now for 15 years. The clientele keeps growing and you’re also expanding to different countries. It means that you’re also building your own team. Right. So it’s not only about talking, uh, how do you help clients, but I’m also curious here, how do you actually build team within the company? Because often it’s a problem actually for many entrepreneurs, 

Mukul: That one, I must thank the army. You see, what happens is all my companies, the first goal I set out is to build a high trust culture. And every single company I have set up, I have made sure that trust is at the highest possible level. Trust is so high that the other three things which are required to drive a high performance team become automatic. So we call these the team factors, trust, empowerment, accountability, mental health and wellness. We actually have designed a tool which can help an organization to measure these four in numbers and then see the impact. As the solution rolls out, that is what makes the whole thing very attractive to our clients. And now, finding the right people is never a problem. 

Yana: It’s not what I hear from other entrepreneurs. So tell me your secret.

Mukul: Okay. My first company, which still works in India, I haven’t been back to office since 2000. The company is still there. It is still profitable. Being completely run by people who have learned to operate it from me. Right? Now, why do I say people is not a problem? Because generally, most people look at people, I look at potential.

So whenever someone joins our team, so we make sure of two things. Firstly, they do have some subject matter expertise in a particular area, which we are seeking to fulfill. The second thing is, we do not hire anyone who is purely an academic. We make sure that everyone who joins the team has minimum 12 to 15 years of experience working in a multinational or the government. So these are people who have studied it, mastered it and practiced it. So that’s what we bring into the game. And like I said, when you help people to grow to their, um, to, to kind of, um, self actualize or live up to their potential. They tend to like it and they stay in the game. 

Yana: Um, since you emphasize the trust so much and you say it’s absolutely at the very top, everything within the company, how do you build trust at work? 

Mukul: no, this is a great question. And the funny thing is that there are six factors which are responsible for building or destroying trust. We have Scientifically created a tool keeping these six factors in mind. Now, I don’t want to go into the whole song and dance, but suffice it to say that each of these six factors can be demonstrated using daily actions, which is what we help our clients to do to pick up certain actions and certain behaviors which drive high trust.

Yana: We were talking with you before about failures and failed attempt. So you kind of said, okay, in business, I guess, or in your project that you were doing, you didn’t have any failures because you never give up. You kept attempting until you succeeded. Overall, if you look at your life, do you feel you have had failures?

Mukul: My personal life is a litany of failed attempts right? So, I learn every time and I try to do a little better each time. So that’s how it goes in my professional life. I would say that we minimize. We have minimized fail attempts to quite an extent because, um, the team holds each other accountable very strongly. And you know, you are a little more careful when someone else has invested their trust in you. So you tend to be a little more careful when it’s my own life, and I’m the only one taking on the repercussions of it. I’m a little less. I let bit This rule rather than this rule. So it works. Yeah.

Yana: Also your children, right? Since we spoke about you two daughters and I’m just curious here, are you as a parent, so if we do like a reverse mentoring, not you mentoring them, but them mentoring you. So what was the biggest thing you feel you learned from your 

Mukul: What’s the biggest thing I learned from them? So actually I learned that I have no idea what parenting is all about. So when I became a single parent, they were like four and eight. I kind of already knew that. This is a really tough deal. So I actually sat down with them and we decided that we would figure out this parenting thing together. So I did rely on them for certain inputs, and I think the end result is pretty good because both of them are very caring, responsible individuals, a lot more than I am. Uh, and, and, uh, I must say successful in their careers too. 

Yana: If you will look at the younger version of yourself, maybe, um, let’s say you in your twenties, and if I would ask you to give an advice and mentorship tip to your younger self, what would you say? 

Mukul: No, I would say that we should never ask a narcissist this question

Yana: That’s why I did. So please,

Mukul: On a more serious note, I would say that, you know, I’m glad I do not have one regret. And that is, I do not regret not having tried whatever I wanted to. If an idea fell into my mind, I didn’t care whether it was workable, not workable. So like when I first wrote a book, right? And, uh, I mean, like. My formal education ended pretty early, right?

When I joined as an officer cadet, I was 16 and a half years old. I’d just finished the 10th grade. So, when I decided to write a book, in fact, I remember when I wrote my third book and, uh, my school had a, uh, event and, uh, you know, for the launch of the book, and my English teacher, who was then the, um, the principal, he came to me and he said, Deva, when did you bloody well learn how to read, uh, to write?

And I said, well, I didn’t learn to read, but I learned to write, you know, so I, I firmly believe that for me, it’s just been that one thing I would just go out and try whatever I wish to try. And that left me with no regrets. I have made terrible decisions in my life, but I’m glad I tried those things out 

Yana: And maybe the final question for today. So going forward, let’s say for the next, maybe let’s look at five to 10 years, uh, what you actually would like to create in your life?

Mukul: Uh, just continue the way I am. I’m in a really great place. I enjoy what I do. It keeps me on the move. And I’m a big fan of Mr. Lee Kuan Yew. I always believe that I will work right till the day I drop dead. And that would be my ultimate life goal to be working the day I drop dead. I would be very happy then.

Yana: Thank you so much for joining us today, Mukul. That was a great conversation.

Mukul: Yana. Always a pleasure.

Yana: And that was Mukul Deva on YanaTV. And as you can see, we really touched upon various subjects of a person who is a Palamas pretty much. And very successful at all of those different activities. And we would love to hear from you, dear audience, in the comments. What is happening in your life right now?

What are you doing? What are you activities, particularly in the 2024. I always love reading and engaging with you. And of course, we are very happy that Muse Studio is hosting Kiana TV. And for those who want to support us even more, please subscribe to the YouTube channel, share this episode with friends, and I’m going to be seeing you next time. How many books? How many books now?

Mukul: my 20th or 21st releases this, this year, this month. 

Yana: Said he very casually.