YT39 | Learn from this Canadian how drumming and neuroscience can level up your self leadership skills

How drumming can make you a better leader? On today’s episode of Yana TV, we explore this question with our guest, Grant “Upbeat” Bosnick. From his unique Croatian Canadian identity to his transformative journey through Canada, Japan, and finally Singapore, Grant unpacks the significant role drumming plays in linking self-leadership with neuroscience. 

His rich background, including a pivotal shift during the COVID-19 pandemic, offers a unique perspective on personal and professional growth. Join us as we explore Grant’s profound insights into cultural dynamics across Asia, and the unexpected intersection of music and self-improvement. This episode is not just about understanding the ‘why’ behind the drums in the studio but also about discovering the rhythms that drive us towards better leadership and enriched lives!

Discussion Topics: Learn from this Canadian how drumming and neuroscience can level up your self leadership skills

• 00:00 | Bridging Cultures: From Canada to Singapore – Dive into Grant’s unique background as a Croatian Canadian in Singapore and how his diverse heritage influences his work in leadership and personal development.
• Japan’s Influence: Explore Grant’s transformative 17 years in Japan, where his passion for music and philosophy took new forms.
• Life Lessons from the Philosopher’s Path: A profound moment on Kyoto’s Philosopher’s Path leads to an epiphany about life’s journey and the universal nature of philosophical inquiry.
• Navigating Cultural Dynamics in Asia: Grant reflects on the nuances of high-context cultures and the importance of understanding and adapting to various communication styles.
• The Leap to Singapore: Why did Grant choose Singapore as his base for launching a global leadership consultancy?
• The Intrigue of Drums: Discover why a set of drums is not just a decorative piece but a key tool in Grant’s innovative approach to leadership development.
• Music and Leadership Synthesis: Grant discusses how his dual careers in music and leadership consulting inform and enrich each other.
• Self-Leadership through Neuroscience: Learn practical tips and exercises designed to enhance mental agility and emotional intelligence.
• The Power of Reframing Challenges: Strategies for transforming challenges into opportunities for growth and the science of positive psychology to guide listeners in rethinking their approach to obstacles.
• Wrapping up

Transcript: Learn from this Canadian how drumming and neuroscience can level up your self leadership skills

Yana: And why would he do that? 

Grant:  I was a, a consultant and Coach many, uh, for most of that time, not now, more of a keynote speaker on stage for, um, offsites. I felt that it didn’t look professional, you

Yana: respectable

Grant: Yeah, not respectful.

Yana: Yes. I mean, I understand even though I don’t, but I understand. So I

Grant: I had a LinkedIn profile, which kind of looked like Grant Bosnick, the uh. Keynote speaker, the, the consultant, you know, and then, uh, another Facebook page was just Grant Bosnick, the musician, and created them totally separate, right?

Yana: They call it bipolar. Hi, I’m Yana and you’re watching YanaTV. Today, our guest is Grant Abitbosnik, and we’re going to talk about self leadership, neuroscience, and drumming. 

Grant: I love this, right? So I’m like, my hand immediately goes here. It’s definitely drums within reaching distance and who doesn’t want to reach out for drums when they’re there,

Yana: know, and we’re going to explain today why the drums are even in the studio. However, what I would like to start with, the fact that you have another interesting part. You are actually the only one in Singapore I know who is Croatian Right. 

Grant: So I was born in Canada, in Toronto, Canada, near Toronto, which is the largest city of Canada. And I, um, went to high school and university in Canada, and before moving out to Asia, 25 years ago to Japan and now Singapore.

And so the fact is that my grandfather is Croatian. My father is Croatian. Um, I’m second generation Canadian. So my grandfather emigrated to Canada, um, and my father was born there, 100 percent Croatian. And then on my mother’s side is half French and half Scottish. But my father’s family is really, really quite big.

So there’s 10 brothers and sisters, about my generation, there’s about 20, 23 of my generation, and then next generation down several more. And it’s a really close family. So that’s why I identified much more with the Croatian side, so probably, you know, Croatian Canadian.

Yana: Uh, I would love to visit those family reunions next time. I’m not inviting myself by any bit like and even my name, like, my family name is Croatian, and my first name is Scottish. So Grant Bosnick, I’m actually the only one on the planet with that combination.

Grant: And then there’s Grant Upbeat Bosnick, which, of course, I’m

Yana: definitely makes you the only one, uh, Japan, right? Since we are in Asia and we’re talking about Asian context here. So here you are grew up in Canada with your very colorful background and Japan 17 years.

Grant: What did you do there? years, and why did you do that?

Yana: And was the best answer

Grant: you know, it was meant to make people laugh. And Japanese people do find it funny. It’s like, because I like sushi. But you know, I think it is important, you know, you like the food of the country you go to first of all and one of the reasons was I, I studied philosophy in university and, um, my, my university is very. conservative and traditional, well known university in Canada. And they didn’t really consider Asian philosophy to be part of philosophy.

So, um, there was one Asian philosophy course only out of the entire Western philosophy that we had multiple courses on. So I wanted to learn more about Asian philosophy. So that was one reason to come to Asia. And then, I’m also a musician. And I used to be pro musician in Canada, touring and recording 13 albums and producing several events.

And so Japan, at that time, was the second largest music industry. I wanted to learn more about Japanese music. And I produced events out there as well, too. And recorded and played out there in Japan. And, um Um, I guess there’s a third reason, too, was that, um, because I do a leadership development with leaders and teams with, hundreds, Fortune 500 clients globally, that when I was in Japan, I was fascinated to see how did they create this business mindset in Japan to grow, 50 years, right?

And I remember when I was in high school, I Kind of went to a special high school that had like, uh, a lot of business courses, and we had this movie that were video documentary that we saw, it was called America’s game, Japanese rules, and it was using the metaphor of baseball to show the difference between Japanese and American business, which was quite, quite fascinating.

And so I was quite interested to learn more about what is the Japanese business mindset and which is, you know, 17 years. that’s what kept me there, those three, three things there. Actually, great story about philosophy.

Yana: Tell me!

Grant: I tell you this, right? I just remembered this, it was like, probably my second year of being in Japan, I, I was living in Tokyo, but I went down to Kyoto.

And so there’s this pathway, Um, which, uh, leads up to one of the temples, uh, uh, Kinkaku ji is the name of the temple. And the name of the, uh, the pathway is called Tetsugaku no Michi, which translates to English as Philosopher’s Path. so having studied philosophy, right?

I was so excited to take this path. And so the first one third of my journey up this path, I was really excited, this is going to be really deep and meaningful. And then after about one third, I got so disappointed because I could see houses around me. There was nothing special about this path. It was a path like any other path you’ll find on this planet.

Right? So I was so disappointed for the next, you know, that second third of my trip. And then when I got two thirds into the journey, I got so excited again. It was like like in a lightning moment, I just realized, yes, this path is like any other path in the world, but every path is a philosopher’s path. Right? So that was my key takeaway from that adventure up there. Tetsugaku no Michi in Kyoto, you know, it’s like every path is a philosopher’s path. We’re always on that journey everywhere we go.

Yana: I feel like we can finish interview right here. You know, you just said it. The main, the main, the main topic. I love it, I love it. Okay, so Japan. how was 17 years in Japan not being Japanese?

Grant: Well, mean, I was Croatian Canadian, but I mean, I didn’t really, um, you know, promote myself based on my ethnic cultural background, but more around, you know, I was, you know, an extrovert. I was a drummer. And so, um, you know, there’s quite a history of original music out of Japan. So really connected with that in the, you know, the, um, combining music and nature.

Yana: Any difficulties integrating as a foreigner, as an expatriate, because that’s what you 

Grant: expatriate, because that’s what you have been there for 17

Yana: of So you speak fluent 

Grant: So you speak fluent enough? wants it perfectly fluent to say I don’t understand you, maybe. I do skip some words sometimes, you know. So if people do, you know, nantunaku wakaru, which for the Japanese fans out there, or the Japanese listeners, they will know that means, uh, you know. Yeah, it means, you know, more or less I understand.

Which is one of the things I really liked about Japanese culture. Coming from a western culture we question the meaning of every single word that we say. And that’s the, the low context cultures, uh, which like, uh, English speaking cultures, for example. Uh, uh, Japanese is a high school. So, if you more or less understand within the given situation that you’re in, that’s enough. Right?

Yana: Well, that’s my realization. Yeah. I I like that. I have been living in Asia I, I, I mean, I have, have Asian family and I work with a lot of and actually what you said just now, I think to me, summarizes in general the biggest difference between East and West when it comes to communication.

Grant: and there’s a lot of the Asian countries, they each have their own high context culture. But the one that’s in China, the ones in Korea, the ones in Japan, the ones in Singapore, the ones that’s in other parts of, you know, Southeast Asia, not all of them are the same. There are quite a few, 10 countries in ASEAN, for example, that, you know, that each of us or each of these countries has their own uniqueness. and they may have their own. High context, but if you understand that context and even if you don’t perfectly speak the language and you know, people can understand 

Yana: Love that. So what brought you to Singapore

Grant: So I, I originally came, I, I, when I was living in Japan, I was coming here maybe three or four times a year for, for business trips to work with, with clients. And then nine years ago, I decided to set up my own company. And so I just chose Singapore as the location to, to set up the company Incorporate here.

Um, the main reason was that, um, 70 75 percent of the foreign multinational companies have their regional offices based out of Singapore, so you can have FaceTime with them. And then that was one of the reasons. And then, as you said, then the reason was like, you know, I’m, I used to help people with presentation skills at one point in my life, and I was always looking for a great example of an Asian person who is a great speaker.

Lee Kuan Yew. Lee Kuan Yew. Right. Yeah. You know, because a lot of the examples people give in other presentation courses, you know, you’ve got Steve Jobs, and you’ve got, you know, Barack Obama, and you’ve got, you know, Clinton, but very few Asian examples that people would come up with.

So, I mean, the first time I saw Lee Kuan Yew speak, and I thought, it’s just, not just the content and his conviction, but he’s a great speaker. You know, so that was one of the things. And then I, I did a project with Fair Price last year and, um, fair Price. Just celebrated 50 years as well too. There was a book published, a documentary, a book about the history of Fair Price called The Price of Being Fair.

And it’s fantastic to, to learn about the history of, um, you know, NTUC and, and the history of the government and how they work together to create what, what became now Fair Price Group and, you know, being some secure food for the people of of Singapore. You know, so that inflation didn’t skyrocket, so that, you know, greedy people didn’t charge more than they were allowed to, for example, here.

And 50 years, I’ve been, um, I’m a PR here, as well, too we decided last year to go to the National Museum of Singapore on National Day. To learn more about the history of this great country. So, you know, 50 years, plus 50 plus years, and then 50 years of Fair Price and Lee Kuan Yew. And it was like, you know, as I said, you know, 50 years to learn what did Singapore do to get to this level. And it was fascinating. You know.

Yana: Right. When you arrived here, what was your first impression?

Grant: My, my, my first impression of Singapore when, when, when I, when I first arrived here, um, I, I found that because I was connecting also in the music scene here and having come from Japan, where probably about 30 percent independent music, lots of original music from J pop, J rock.

And then when I come to Singapore and, very little original music here. Um, it took me a while to figure out and to find out from people who are in the music industry here and why this might happen. You know, there is, you know, a little bit more of a risk averse culture.

 it was an interesting approach to learn about the people, you know, by what is it that is popular musically, and one of the things that, you know, um, a lot of the venues were mercantile profit driven. So whatever is going to bring in the most amount of revenue is going to be the choice of business model, right? So if you got, you know, cover bands making requests or you got techno or house DJs playing pretty safe music, you’re going to get a lot of people and it’s going to be quite, quite popular.

 there are people doing things out there, so it is changing, you know, you know, so yeah, there are some people doing original music out there. There’s a lot of original dance coming out of Singapore. Um, so there’s some great artists that, that are, you know, doing things. So, you know, Slowly, it’s moving up into, you know.

Yana: And hear yourself. I mean, you have been a professional musicians for many years. That was, but also while you were staying in Japan, right? So here you are, come to Singapore and you changed the industry. What happened, 

Grant: Grant? I actually spent 20 years of my professional life hiding the fact that I play drums.

Yana: And why would he do that? 

Grant:  I was a, a consultant and Coach many, uh, for most of that time, not now, more of a keynote speaker on stage for, um, offsites. I felt that it didn’t look professional, you

Yana: respectable

Grant: Yeah, not respectful.

Yana: Yes. I mean, I understand even though I don’t, but I understand. So I

Grant: I had a LinkedIn profile, which kind of looked like Grant Bosnick, the uh. Keynote speaker, the, the consultant, you know, and then, uh, another Facebook page was just Grant Bosnick, the musician, and created them totally separate, right? They call it 

Yana: bipolar.

Grant: Ha ha! But it was during, it was during COVID times that I decided to bring it out. So just like the drums are here in the back of the camera here right now, that I had the bongos behind me and my camera to show a little bit about me, who I am. Now this was influenced by the CEO of IBM, Arvind Krishna.

So at the time when everybody at IBM was working from home, he took the entire company on a, like a town hall, town hall tour of his house, his living room, kitchen, the dining room, the children, the pets and everybody else in the house and to show that he’s human. So I thought, that’s a great idea. So I’m going to put my bongos behind me to show in the camera during COVID times that I’m also a drummer.

And it became, you know. a talking piece, even with clients, you know, that’s interesting. Nobody’s got bongos, right? Why you got bongos behind you? Oh, let me tell you, you know, and then eventually my name became Grant Upbeat Bosnick. And I’ve actually now got a registered trademark for Upbeat, which is a using the science of drumming to enhance people’s thinking.

And it joins the right and left hemispheres together because the right and left hemispheres vibrate at different So by the drum patterns that I’ve created for Upbeat, And we’re going to do some later, too.

Yana: Well, I’m excited now.

Grant: to do some, too, right? The drum patterns help to, you know, make a faster transfer of information so we get more aha moments, I wrote this book here, which is, uh, published last year, Tailored Approaches to Self Leadership, A Bite Sized Approach Using Psychology and Neuroscience, and Marshall Goldsmith did the foreword for that. So there’s a lot of tips in there as well, too, about how we can use neuroscience to help us to, in our daily life, live a more effective life, be happier, achieve more as a result of

Yana: still would love to hear a few tips right here today on camera. Could you, be so generous to share with us, please?

Grant: Some tips, okay. All right. Um, I mean, since the drums are here, we’re not going to actually play the drums, but um, I’ll play on our laps because everybody’s got a lap. So all of you that are watching right now as well, too, you can do this with us. 

So it’s very simple. What we’re going to do is called eight on each hand. So we’ll do 8 strokes with the right hand, then 8 with the left hand, then 8 with the right, and we’ll go back and forth. So I’ll demonstrate it first, and then we’ll all do it together.

So it’s like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, left, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, right, 2. And so, okay, so we’ll all do it 

Yana: together. I’m

Grant: all of you, I’ll count it in, I’ll count it in for everybody you come in with too. So 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, right. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. And left 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, right 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, left two, 3, 4, four, faster seven 8, right, Left, faster 8, left, 2, 2, 1, left, right, Four.

Slow it down. Seven, eight, and lift. Left 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, right 2, faster, 5, 6, 5, 6, 7, 8, left 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, right 2, left, right 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and left 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Great, fantastic, great job everybody that

Yana: did it!

Grant: there drumming with us. Rewind that, do it again too. So what this does is it helps us to build. The primary brain to be more focused and have higher concentration. So that’s the first step of Upbeat. Because Upbeat is really helping people get into a heightened state. So the first step is to get them higher level of attention, higher level

Yana: you definitely got my attention.

Grant: So that’s what that exercise is. That’s the first one I do it. You know, I do, I use Upbeat at off sites with clients and then blend it in to help them to have more higher level of thinking and more alignment as well, too, once we get into dividing the parts among people as well, too, later. 

Yana: Okay, so we did this. You got my attention. Give me the tip. Give me something which will make me better at my own self leadership. So I’ll give you this one other, one other technique as well. And this is something that people can do anytime before a meeting or before a presentation. You know, to help us to get our mind on something. 

Grant: Shiraz Carmen was the one who originally first coined this phrase of the PQ reps positive intelligence quotient reps. Imagine going to the gym, and we do different reps for our physical body. So these are small physical things that we can do where we focus on one sense at a time, which helps to build the mental building blocks in our brain.

Okay, so the first one we can do it together is you take your index finger and your thumb and just start making circles with them. Whichever direction you want to do. Whichever direction feels comfortable for you first of all. And by focusing on this one sense of touch, and then reverse the direction of it, and it may be a different feeling and sensation in your brain, by focusing on the sense of touch, it helps us then to build this mental muscle, or this focus and concentration that we’re going to build in our brain.

All right, okay, so that’s one we can do. So that’s using the sense of touch. Now, if everybody close your eyes, right now, close your eyes, and you’re going to focus on the sense of hearing. So right now, listen to the ambient sounds in the room. So this could be the sound of the air conditioning. Maybe there’s a hum in the lighting that’s in the room that you’re in.

If you get the window open, maybe there’s an ambient sound of wind blowing. So So whatever that ambient sound is, focus your mind on that. Now focus your mind on the sound that is the farthest away. So maybe there’s a car outside or a dog barking. Whatever that farthest sound is. Now focus your attention to the closest sound. Maybe that’s the sound of your own breath, breathing. And so you can open your eyes now. So that’s one thing that we can do as well to by changing the focus of our attention and all of these exercises. So like going to the gym to work your physical muscle helps build the mental muscle, which is the building block for us to do all the higher level, getting her getting her brain into flow.

So we can five extra productivity having aha moments. So, you know, Ideas connect together, helping us to regulate our emotions, helping us to show up with, with the, the kind of presence that we want to show up with to our team, to our, to our audience. So all of these are helping to build that, um, mental building blocks.

The last one around is emotion regulation here. So I want everybody right now to imagine, and Jan, imagine right now for us, everybody out there listening as well, imagine you’re going for a hike right now. And I’m from Canada, we call it the woods. That’s the forest, or maybe it’s on a mountain, depending on which country you’re from.

Imagine it’s 26 degrees, it’s dry, the sun is shining, the birds are singing, the flowers smell nice, and RAR! A bear comes in your face. So how does it make you feel when a bear comes in your face? Shocked. Right? We feel shocked, we feel

Yana: I was expecting more butterflies.

Grant: More butterflies, because of fear, right? You know, maybe our hair stands up, you know, and maybe our blood starts to rush, you know, or we

Yana: the blood starts to rush,

Grant: know. So we physically feel it before our brain even knows what happens. And it’s the same thing whenever we face any kind of change or challenge in our own social or emotional life. Whether that could be something that’s, you know, personal with a loved one, or maybe it’s something in business related to, you know, you have a disagreement with your boss or your colleague or something, you know, Oh, why this person, you know, so frustrating, you the boss 

Yana: is the bear.

Grant: Right, the boss is the bear, right? So it could be something traumatic or it could be something small as well too, right? So one of the things I like to do, and I wrote a lot of it in this book here, is if we can tap into some of the creative Ways of thinking to help us to reframe our situation.

It helps us to, um, Number one, to get new ideas that we didn’t think of. If we analyze the problem too deeply, Oh, why is my boss like this? Why is Right, you know, you’re only tapping into the front part, your prefrontal cortex. And it’s so strong, the signals there, you’re not going to get any new ideas.

Right, so you want to tap into the weaker ones. So, you can come up with some creative questions. If you go to the world of fiction, fictional characters, you know, it’s like, well, how would Mickey Mouse deal with this situation or Harry Potter, you know, or Captain Kirk or whoever you want to imagine, you know, in that situation, what would they do?

If they were in that situation, for example, or, or maybe if you like, imagine it like a newspaper headline, you know, if this were like a motto or saying or on the newspaper headline, you know, what would that read? So you use these creative techniques to help get new ideas formed because you’re tapping into the weaker signals in your brain. So you get these aha moments, right? And I think that, you know, if we can reframe our situation. in a much more effective way. 

Yana: I love that. I would ask you maybe to tell me. In two industries, since you’re combining them together, let’s start with music. So many years in music, what was your biggest realization after being a musician professionally for so Hmm. 

Grant: Hmm. Hmm. It has to be one or can I say two? Because I think there’s two that I took away, which I see. They do combine,  like one’s like the flip side of the other one, right? Okay. Okay. So one of the things is, you know, is that every, I mean, I played rock music, you know, and then now it’s more dance music. But especially, well, I don’t know, dance music, maybe the same, but well, I spent, you know, a lot of time with different bands in rock music and everybody,

Yana: longer hair? Yeah,

Grant: I did have long hair at one point. I did. So I, you know, everybody’s got an ego. Everybody wants to be a rock star. You know, I’m the drummer. I want to be the rock star drummer of the guitars, the bass player, the keyboardist. Everybody wants to be a rock star, right? And so one of the things is we try to play louder and louder.

You know, I want to be louder. Oh, you know, turn your volume down, you know, I can’t hear myself play. And oh, Grant, you’re playing too loud. No, I’m not. You’re playing too loud, right? So we all get these egos. So I think the flip side of that is that we have to listen to each other. And I think that, you know, with now modern music, people have the in ear monitors and the monitor engineer can give a perfect mix for each individual person so that they get the right balance that’s going to allow them to contribute the value to the ensemble or to the band.

Right. And I think that, you know, taking that into the context within business and leaders, right. You know, leaders are successful. They’re like rock stars. They’re like

Yana: right? Everyone wants to be the loudest in the room,

Grant: And you get, you know, top leaders in top organizations. They are successful, and they’re proud of what they’ve done. What comes with that is an ego as well, too, you know. But if they take a step back and realize, okay, well, everybody adds value, and we listen to each other, we balance the sounds of the different people within our team. And if you’re the head of the organization, all the different teams within your function or within the top person of the organization, all the functions within that.

And if you balance all this together, you’re going to create a symphony, you’re going to create great music, right? So I think that’s probably the key takeaway is, you know, let go of your ego and, you know, listen to others and we’re going to then create synergy.

Yana: And symphony. I love that. The final question, which probably you know what I’m going to ask now about your other professional life, being a coach, speaker, trainer, right? Doing all of this for so also so many years. What was the biggest learning lesson there working with all those people 

Grant: I think that, um, with my background in psychology, that we, the way we can engage with people, is very similar across different industries. You know, looking at the human side of being a leader. And it’s about understanding what works for our people. And I talk about psychological needs that people have. The need for competence, the need for autonomy, the need for relatedness, the need for, um, sureness and certainty, the need for, for, for fairness and, and, and, and equity.

And I think that if people can, um, Satisfy these needs within the work that they do. And if leaders and companies can create an environment where people can satisfy these, then it’s going to create sustained motivation for people. And commitment and great high performance. Um, it’s going to help people get into flow and flow is the state where we’re completely in focused on what we’re doing to the point where slowing down is almost painful and we’re so productive.

We’re getting so much done. It seems like if things are going easy for us because we’ve got a clear goal, we got the commitment, we got the motivation to do that. So I think that that’s probably one of the things that I’ve realized is that if we can Within whatever industry we’re in, whatever function we’re in, if we can help our team members to satisfy their psychological needs, then we’re going to get high level of performance and 

Yana: Thank you so much. That was the grand outfit Bosniak on Yana TV today. I learned so much guys. I don’t know about you, so I would love to hear from you actually in the comments. What was your favorite tip? What would you like to try? And of course, if you’re one of the fellow musicians do comment, would love to connect and check out new music.

And we are very grateful to Muse Studio for hosting Yana TV. And of course, remember, subscribe and share this episode. I’m going to be seeing you. Next time.

Grant: That’s 

Yana: why drums are in the

Grant: That’s why there’s

Yana: the way, right?

Grant: Yeah, it’s not just a prop. I really do play.