YT42 | What second generation family business owners need to know to succeed – Tristan Sjoberg

How did this Swedish businessman successfully expand his family business into Asia? In this episode of YanaTV, we are joined by Tristan Sjoberg, an accomplished Swedish entrepreneur and business executive with extensive experience across Asia. Born in Sweden and now the executive chairman of TCS John Huxley Group of Companies, and co-owner of Knutsson Holdings, Tristan shares his journey from his first awe-inspiring visit to Thailand at 18 to running multinational businesses. 

Discover how Tristan’s initial scuba diving trip transformed into a deep business involvement in Asia, offering insights into navigating cultural differences and generational business transitions. Tune in for a discussion on the challenges and triumphs of managing a legacy business and making impactful decisions in a foreign landscape!

Discussion Topics: What second generation family business owners need to know to succeed

• How did Tristan’s first trip to Asia influence his life? Learn about Tristan’s initial impressions of Asia during his scuba diving adventure in Thailand and how this experience sparked his lifelong connection with the continent.
• What led Tristan to take over his family business? Discover the circumstances that shifted Tristan’s career path from aspiring scientist to leading his family’s international business operations.
• How does Tristan manage the complexities of running a business across different Asian cultures? Gain insights into Tristan’s approach to navigating the diverse business environments of Asia, from China to Japan, and the unique challenges each presents.
• What advice does Tristan have for second-generation business owners? Hear Tristan’s perspective on the importance of gaining external experience before joining a family business and how this can lead to more successful leadership.
• How do business practices vary across key Asian countries where Tristan has operated? Delve into Tristan’s experiences conducting business in various Asian nations. Learn how cultural nuances influence business operations in China, Japan, Macau, and Indonesia.
• What makes Singapore an ideal place for business and family life? Tristan shares his insights on why Singapore is a prime location for expatriates, business operations, and personal life.
• How has living and working in Asia shaped Tristan’s business strategies and personal life? Explore how Tristan’s extensive experiences across Asia have influenced his business decisions, personal growth, and family life.
• Wrapping up

Transcript: What second generation family business owners need to know to succeed

Yana: I think the key thing is that you need to not be chained by your family business. You’ve got to have the ability to make your own choices and to get experience from outside the family businesses.

Because if you if you only stay within the family business from the day you turn 18, I think it’s very, very difficult to be anything else but the boss’s son, and you will be treated accordingly. I would recommend everyone to go and work for a different company, have a boss, someone who actually, you know, you have to report to that you are accountable to do that for X number of years, get that experience under your belt, realize what it means to be an employee.

And if then you decide that business or the family business is for you, then go back to the family company. Welcome to Yana TV. Today, our guest is Tristan Schauberg, who is an executive chairman of TCS, John Harsley Group of Companies and co owner of Knudsen Holdings. And we’re going to be talking about what it means to do business in different countries in Asia when you are not Asian. You were born in which country? Let’s start with this. I was born in Sweden just over 50 years ago. And And when did you come to Asia for the first time? 

Tristan: I first came to Asia in 1989 when I was 18 years old on a scuba diving trip with a good friend of mine that was Thailand.

Yana: Yes weeks of scuba diving. And what was the first impression? Do you remember when you landed in Thailand as an 18 years old? Very different from Sweden. I came from Sweden in December. It was, well, very cold. Obviously, Thailand in December is perfect climate for a Swede. And, and just a hustle and bustle of landing in Bangkok with everything that’s going on. 

Tristan: I was effectively a backpacking teenager, late teenager, and for me it was like, wow, I didn’t really know this part of the world existed. And yeah, I had a great time scuba diving, ate great food, and yeah, it was a fantastic experience and I couldn’t wait to go back.

Yana: Which you did. You set up your companies or actually to be precise, it’s a second generation business, right? So you took over from your father. So my, my father passed away in 2012 and, my brother and I, we have we inherited two companies., one is a diversified, investment company, based out of Gothenburg. The other one is TCS John Huxley, which is a casino equipment manufacturer distribution company headquartered in the UK, but with 11 offices around the world, three offices here in Asia. and I’m the executive chairman of that one. And I run it on a day to day basis.

When we talk about a second generation business owners. Which you, you and your brother are, it’s also a big topic in Asia because many businesses in Asia are generational. So I’m just curious, your perspective again, as a son who took over from the father, was it an easy decision for you? 

And it was not an easy decision until later in life because when I was 18 I worked for two years in, in, in a casino in Swedenand became a roulette dealer group here. And I did that for two years, whilst I was sort of figuring out what I wanted to do with my life. Then I moved to the UK, to Wales, to study marine biology and chemical oceanography. I was fortunate enough, after three years of study, to be offered a PhD studentship following that, I, I wanted to get some business skills, but I was still set on being a scientist. So I did an MBA at Oxford University. so after nine years of study,

I decided at that stage, I didn’t really want to become a research scientist, but I, I wanted sort of work within science. But I graduated on nine 11 The 9 11. And obviously at that point in time it was virtually impossible to find a job. I sat down with my father, and he said, why don’t you come and join the family company? Get some experience under your belt. If nothing else, it will look good on CV that you weren’t unemployed. And, get to understand the family business. So, that was in, September. I was 29 years old at that stage, and I’ve been stuck in the family company ever since, and I’m very happy about 

Tristan: that.

Yana: Beautiful, and I’m just curious, your advice to those who find themselves in this situation when they have to make a choice, right? Since we’re talking about the second or third or fourth, whatever you are generation, but you have to take over from your parents fundamentally. And there are a lot of people right now, actually, especially late twenties, early thirties, because it’s the decision usually made, which are thinking about it. And so they’re thinking whether they want to do this or whether they want to pursue something entirely different. Is there something you would like to tell them?

Well, I think I think the key thing is that you need to not be chained by your family business. You’ve got to have the ability to make your own choices and to get experience from outside the family businesses. Because if you if you only stay within the family business from the day you turn 18, I think it’s very, very difficult to be anything else but the boss’s son, and you will be treated accordingly. I would recommend everyone to go and work for a different company, have a boss, someone who actually, you know, you have to report to that you are accountable to do that for X number of years, get that experience under your belt, realize what it means to be an employee.

And if then you decide that business or the family business is for you, then go back to the family company. I love the advice. It’s almost like an initiation in the way, right? And also when you come back then to your family business, you’re coming sort of With the higher reputation, because now you stand on your own feet, you achieved something, you know how to do things. and actually, uh, there’s, uh, there’s a very famous, uh, Swedish conglomerate, which is still family owned. They stay in our family and, and, uh, you are always guaranteed to be able to get a job there, but you always start from the bottom. And that’s a very interesting one

Tristan: Interesting.

Yana: So, you know, for example, I checked into a hotel in Stockholm a couple of years ago, right? Uh, and, uh, uh, the guy who was the, uh, the bellboy, he was actually a fourth generation from this family. And, and, and he was put to job in one of the, to work in, in, in, in, in one of the hotels that was owned by this conglomerate. Uh, and, and, you know, you’ll have a job, but you know, you have to fend for yourself.

Beautiful. Okay.I think it’s also a good device is going forward for those who are building a business right now. It may be planning to pass it on to children. It’s good to start thinking, actually, how do you prepare your children then to lead the company and are they fully equipped to do this or not? Absolutely. There’s always a possibility to join the family company. Uh, but it shouldn’t be exclusive. It shouldn’t be that way or the highway, you know? You should get experience from somewhere else and then come back. I think it’s, I think it’s good for the individual and I think it’s good for the company because you need new experiences.

You need new blood as well, right? And you know, when that new blood comes in, you have that experience of how other companies do it because otherwise it’s very easy to get stuck in. Become blinkered and I think it’s very important that you actually, you know, take those blinkers off and go into the job with an open bridal. 

Tristan: Hmm.

Yana: Mmm. Love it. Love it. Love it. Okay. So you were doing that. You did your own journey. And you know, have been now at, you said, hyper ever since, traveled all over the world. Worked all over the world, and especially, I think you probably have been in every country in Asia, or worked in every country in Asia, could we say 

Tristan: this way?

Yana: Yeah. Uh, the one I’ve missed out really is, is Pakistan and Nepal. I

Tristan: Okay. 

Yana: So those two. This is quite impressive. So I’m curious to hear about this particular aspect of your life. So maybe let’s pick like three, five countries that, you know, come to your mind at the very top where you have been to, you did business and there’s something interesting you would like to share with us my favorite countries in Asia per se and where I have the most experience and, and also, uh, success would be, you know, China, Japan, uh, Singapore.

Of course, we’re here in lucky Singapore. Uh, Macau, and I think it’s very important to sort of separate Macau from, from China because even though it is one China, uh, the method of doing business there, uh, are different and the psyche is different. I do have a soft spot for Indonesia as well,

Beautiful. Okay. Let’s start with China. So how did China come into your life? Uh, China came into my, my life, uh, almost, uh. In two different ways, almost simultaneously. First, I met a Chinese girl in London. right. Your wife is from China. Yes. yes, she’s from China, Uh, at the same time, uh, we, we also started Knutson Holdings. We started looking at investing in China. Uh, so we, I made various trips to China around 2003 through to 2008

Tristan: 2008

Yana: and nine. China became very much, a place I frequented certainly on a monthly basis. And I still do, uh, I co own a condo in, in, uh, in, in Beijing and, um, I’m, I’m there almost all the time. And, uh, of course my two children are half Chinese, right? So how is it to do business in China?

 doing business in China is, uh, is not as fraught with difficulty as some would have you believe. It’s, uh, uh, the Chinese are very emotional people, so it’s, uh, and that’s a good thing because, you know, you can usually, uh, read, uh, what, what they want and what makes them tick, unlike some of the other cultures in, in, in Asia, which are much more difficult to read. And I think one of the key things is that, you know, in any business deal, but particularly true in China is that it’s got to be a win win. Everyone’s got to win. Your Chinese partner’s got to win. You got to win. And if you fulfill those criteria and you have an open, transparent dialogue, it’s not that difficult doing business in China.

 and what about stories that they say you can’t trust anyone in China? And there are all those stories that people are saying everyone going to cheat on you, right? Yeah, I’ve never suffered anything like that. I’ve never had those kind of problems. It is an ever changing regulatory environment though. And you have to understand that. Uh, laws and regulations in China are written very vaguely because that’s how the Chinese government wants it. 

 So you’re, you’re more at risk at regulatory clamp down or that the regulation or the law goes, you know, towards a direction that you don’t want to go with your business. But in terms of business partners, uh, I’ve never experienced that. What is the difference between doing business and doing it to places? Because you said we want to separate it, right? When we look at it. So, Macau was ruled by, by the Portuguese for, uh, 200 years.

Tristan: And there is certainly a Latin flair to, uh, to Macau bus you do business there. It is certainly a bit more of a sort of cowboy town.

Yana: uh, rules are not quite as strictly adhere

Tristan: to. There’s a

Yana: little bit more, uh, sort of, you know, uh, let’s, let’s fly by night and let’s get this thing done. Uh, rather than in China, which can be actually quite rigid in terms of what you can and can’t do and how you structure things. So, uh, I do think that, uh, Macau is certainly, uh, an island, uh, to that place by its own rules and, uh, some for worse, some for better. Love that Japan, huge country. Also mystical, not very open to foreigners again, particularly non Asians. So how was your experience there? Well, my, my first experience was a very, very good one because I was actually pitching for a deal and my competitor was an American company. And, uh, we met with the principal or, uh, of, uh, of the

Tristan: Japanese company, we were

Yana: trying to, uh, seal the deal with and we effectively met, uh, at

Tristan: their offices

Yana: There was the customary exchange of gifts. Um, I, I took the gift and looked at it very closely, uh, and

Tristan: carried it with

Yana: during the whole time. The, uh, the other guy I was up against, he basically took one quick look at it, gave it to his assistant and said, don’t forget to pack this and then never looked at it. Then a couple of minutes later, we get the business cards from the Japanese

Tristan: chairman.

Yana: Obviously I took it with both hands and I looked at it. I studied it during a meeting during the negotiations. I had

Tristan: it on the table in

Yana: front of me at all times. Uh, my, uh, my competitor, he basically didn’t look at the card. He stuck it in his pocket and ignored it.

Tristan: The next

Yana: day I got a call saying I won the business.

Tristan: Even though I

Yana: was a good 10, 15 percent more expensive than my competitor.

Tristan: So it’s, it’s certainly about, uh, being respectful in the environment you’re in and just not be rude. Just

Yana: don’t be an idiot and be respectful. How did you feel being a European who came to Japan to do business and how was it for you? 

Tristan: It was difficult to be honest with you because when you travel around in China, which I’ve had experience of in Asia, most signs are in English as well. So, um, it was tough. English, everywhere you go, no matter where you go,

Yana: in the deepest darkest parts of China, they understand English and, and speak a

Tristan: little bit of English.

Yana: That is certainly not the case in Japan. Uh, very few signs in English, uh, um, and, and. Even less people speak English.

Tristan: So, uh, I think from

Yana: logistical point of view,

Tristan: uh, doing business in Asia

Yana: is, is, is difficult for a non Japanese,

Tristan: uh, speaking Westerner,

Yana: uh, and, and, and Understanding the, uh, the culture, how you actually do the deal and, you know, the many

Tristan: different steps. And I found in my experience, if you do

Yana: deal in Japan, a handshake is often better than a well drafted legal agreement. You uh, if there is a handshake with a Japanese partner, he is honor bound to fulfill his obligations. very much. Whereas if there’s an agreement written, detailed by lawyers,

Tristan: people tend to

Yana: people

Tristan: tend to say,

Yana: you know, let’s find loopholes,

Tristan: Interesting.

Yana: Well, that’s what a business tip. Um, Indonesia, Indonesia, uh, again, one of my favorite countries. Um, my, my recommendation in doing business

Tristan: in Indonesia is,

Yana: um, become friends with Indonesians first and business will follow, not the other way around. So I would certainly, um, understand Indonesian culture, understand Indonesian way of life, the outlook, learn about the history of Indonesia. It’s a, it’s

Tristan: a country

Yana: that has over the last 50 years, even

Tristan: hundred years gone through

Yana: tumultuous times, still a lot of pain in the country.

Tristan: um, but it has generated some of the best entrepreneurs in the whole of Asia. If 

Yana: you can get things done in Indonesia, you can get it done anywhere in

Tristan: the world.

Yana: but I would say, get to know Indonesians, Understand Indonesian culture, become friends with Indonesians, then look at doing business, not the other the other way around. Singapore, since we’re here, right? So we have to do the whole circle and come back. Absolutely, Singapore. Well, that’s my, that’s my choice. So my first visit

Tristan: to

Yana: was, uh, in, in the early two thousands. I was actually working in Australia at the time and I had a two day layover in Singapore on the way back to London where I was living. So I, I sort of stopped off in Singapore and I was absolutely God smacked what I saw. I didn’t realize Singapore was as advanced as it was. Uh, it was so different from my previous, um, previous experiences of Asia, especially

Tristan: Southeast Asia 

Yana: Eso I was like, Wow, I really got to come back here. Eso I came back to London and I said, I’ve got to come back to Singapore. I’ve got to come back to Singapore. So every time I went to Australia for the next few years, I

Tristan: stopped 

Yana: off in Singapore and got to know the 

Tristan: city more and

Yana: more. Um, and then, uh, when Singapore liberalized the laws and, uh, decided to have two integrated resorts, I decided I, I need to move. To Singapore. That’s exactly the golden spot. Yeah, exactly. The golden spot. You know, that intersection between Western culture and Asian culture. Uh, and it’s very easy for an expat westerner like myself to, to, to slip into the, the culture and the, and the way of things here and I, I really enjoyed it. I, I really enjoyed moving to Asia. It took me some time to convince my wife, who is from China because she was, her career was really taking off in, in, as an investment banker. So 

Tristan: uh, it,

Yana: uh, it took me about a year. First time, first year I asked her in 2008, she said, no. I decided to, so, you know, take her to Singapore. She’s never been to Singapore, so I decided to take her on a week’s vacation in Singapore. Uh, my wife is a big Formula one fan. Mm-Hmm. . So I, it was the inaugural race in 2008, the night race in Singapore. Wow. Yes, I remember. So I got a, a paddle club ticket. It’s for the night race.

Tristan: I booked us the

Yana: hotels.

Tristan: She loves animals.

Yana: So I booked a night safari, Les amis, French food, everything. I

Tristan: And, you know, we had a great week here and then on the flight back said, darling, you know, if we move to Singapore every week is going to be like this, right? You know, this will be our standard routine and you

Yana: know, somehow that convinced her.

Tristan: So we

Yana: moved in 2009 to Singapore and we’ve, we’ve been never said, So two kids are born here. They’re very happy here. It’s a, a great place to be. rearing kids. Uh, they, they love it here. Still struggling for them to understand they’re half Swedish, half Chinese and not not Singaporean. So they think they’re Singaporean? So business part of Singapore. So how is this experience for you since we covered a lot of countries? Singapore

Tristan: Singapore is

Yana: is great for business. There’s no question about it. You have a very clear, transparent rule of law here. You have an amazing, um, Amazing opportunities to set up a company here and to grow the company. You also, you have to be a little bit wary about what Singapore is

Tristan: very good at, and they are still developing. Uh, in In terms of the creative space, they, uh, they are still developing, but they are exceptionally good at making sure things running on time, protocols,

Yana: asset management,

Tristan: uh, all those aspects of business,

Yana: which is, you know, is 80 percent of running a business can be done much better here than in most other parts

Tristan: of Asia.

Yana: It’s an amazing place to run business. You can attract talent here. It’s a great work ethic. It’s, it’s a very good place to have a business here. For sure. Absolutely. Back to the family, Back to the starting conversations about children also. I’m just very curious, right? I’m just very have the mixed family, and particularly when

Tristan: and particularly when you

Yana: have cats.

Tristan: of mixed races And so they they have 

Yana: Swedish they have Chinese, but they think they’re Singaporean. I just find it’s fascinating Yeah, so how do you how do you how old today if I may ask so there are seven and nine like as a parent, right?

Tristan: When you look

Yana: them, 

Tristan: What do you think kind of future you would like to have for them?

Yana: And where is the world heading in Asia particularly? Like in their development? Well, it’s, it’s, uh, uh, I’ll answer your question, but I will like to start off with a little, uh, little cute story and that is, and that is the, my kids go to Tanglin Trust School and, uh, in one particular corridor in Tanglin Trust School, all the flags are hanging down. And so I walk my kids to school one morning and they see the Swedish flag. So they pointed it and says, that’s Baba flag.

Tristan: couple of

Yana: meters later, they see the Chinese flag and they say, that’s mama flag. And then

Tristan: about 10 meters

Yana: later, they see the Singaporean flag and they proudly say, that’s my flag.

Tristan: That’s

Yana: That’s a cute story. Yeah, that’s, uh, that, that, that’s, that’s pretty much how they see, see, see themselves. And of course, why wouldn’t they, you know, they’re born here, they’re brought up here, you know, this is their home for sure. But to answer your question, then, you know, what does the future hold for, for kids who are born and brought up in, in, in Singapore, but holding a different passport? It’s a very, uh, tricky one, because, you know, if you

Tristan: ask me the

Yana: question, uh, um, 10, 15 years ago when I first moved here, I would say definitely primary school here, then off to boarding school in the UK or in Switzerland or something like that. and get a

Tristan: Western style education towards

Yana: prepping them for university. Now I’m not so sure. Uh, now, uh, I definitely think they need to be out of Singapore for a couple of years to see that Singapore is a bubble. You know, there is a whole world out there that is not as safe and secure as Singapore. And they need to get a bit of grow a bit of skin on their nose to make sure that they are prepared for what the world has to offer outside of Singapore. It’s just that we’re too safe and too secure in our environment here. And Singapore is

Tristan: a small island

Yana: and they need to understand what the big world is like outside of Singapore. So I do think they need to have exposure to the world at some stage in their teams. But it is by no means a certainty they’ll go to university in the classical locations such as

Tristan: the

Yana: UK or in the US or Australia. I will have no hesitation sending them to Tsinghua University in Beijing. I would have no hesitation sending

Tristan: them to NUS, for example. I think the Asian universities are, are really come leaps and bounds in the last 20 years. And, uh, and, and this is the region where I can still see growth, you know, when I go back to Europe these days. I don’t see growth but I see it here. You know, it doesn’t matter whether I go to Jakarta or Singapore or if I was Hong Kong a couple of weeks

Yana: ago, you know, that can do is here in Asia. And I think that’s what I want my girls to tap into. So I would have no problem going for diversity

Tristan: to university in

Yana: Asia if they so choose. Thank you so much, Tristan. It’s always such a pleasure to have you here with us on the show today. I love the depth and the variety and diversity of our conversation. I think it’s amazing, you know, business tips. And it’s also very interesting perspective on the family and where the future is heading. So thank you for being with us today. And this was Tristan Schrobert on Yana TV. And as you can see, we talked about a lot of things. And we would love to hear from you guys in the comments. How do you feel? Perhaps you’re also an expert who is living in singapore.